[NL2-NL10] Call 3bet, fold to Cbet

    • fotakis
      fotakis
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.11.2010 Posts: 88
      MP1 is a nit 11/9 over 57 hands. no more stats except Cbet 50%. I think as I called his 3bet pre, I could also call his Cbet.

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
      SB ($10.32)
      BB ($10.54)
      UTG ($7.59)
      UTG+1 ($10.50)
      Hero ($10.15)
      MP1 ($10.30)
      CO ($9.85)
      BTN ($11.17)

      Dealt to Hero J:heart: J:spade:

      fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.40, MP1 raises to $1.20, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.80

      FLOP ($2.55) 8:club: 7:diamond: K:diamond:

      Hero checks, MP1 bets $1.83, Hero folds

      MP1 wins $2.44
  • 8 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Hi,

      he needs to 3-bet AQ/TT that you could call his c-bet on the flop. I think c/f flop would be the best option, since you are behind his JJ-AA and AK range and only beating some random hands

      best regards,
    • FlashDavin
      FlashDavin
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2011 Posts: 421
      So if you only give him that range, does it make sense to call the 3bet at all Kaitz?
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by FlashDavin
      So if you only give him that range, does it make sense to call the 3bet at all Kaitz?
      I would prefer calling there TT-QQ and 4-bet KK/AA. He would likely 3-bet you with AK, sometimes with AQ and rarely his bluffs. If flop comes low you can always c/c once and then check it down against AK and his overcards+ if you hit set you can always go c/c flop, c/rai turn and he would very likely stack off his overpairs

      best regards,
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Calling a 3bet oop is a very bad thing in my opinion.
      Wouldn't it be better to just fold it? There is going to be an overcard on the flop most likely, and it would be a verry difficult spot, almost impossible to say what to do kind of spot. Without te initiative, and out of position, what can we do, hope to hit a set? It needs better implied odds.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Calling a 3bet oop is a very bad thing in my opinion.
      Wouldn't it be better to just fold it? There is going to be an overcard on the flop most likely (more than 50%), and it would be a verry difficult spot, almost impossible to say what to do kind of spot. Without te initiative, and out of position, what can we do, hope to hit a set? It needs better implied odds.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      Calling a 3bet oop is a very bad thing in my opinion.
      Wouldn't it be better to just fold it? There is going to be an overcard on the flop most likely (more than 50%), and it would be a verry difficult spot, almost impossible to say what to do kind of spot. Without te initiative, and out of position, what can we do, hope to hit a set? It needs better implied odds.
      11/9 should most of the times also 3-bet pf with AK.
      Even if we give him very strong range, JJ is doing still quite fine against his 3-bet range
      Hand Equity Wins Ties
      JJ 36.19% 125,683,776 1,463,736
      QQ-AA, AK 63.81% 222,162,504 1,463,736

      So that´s why I don´t like raise/folding my JJ, with 36% equity. Nothing wrong c/c once if there are no K and A on the flop to then c/f turn or if you hit your set then take c/c flop, c/rai turn line.

      best regards,
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      11/9 should most of the times also 3-bet pf with AK.
      Even if we give him very strong range, JJ is doing still quite fine against his 3-bet range
      Hand Equity Wins Ties
      JJ 36.19% 125,683,776 1,463,736
      QQ-AA, AK 63.81% 222,162,504 1,463,736

      So that´s why I don´t like raise/folding my JJ, with 36% equity. Nothing wrong c/c once if there are no K and A on the flop to then c/f turn or if you hit your set then take c/c flop, c/rai turn line.

      best regards,
      Well, an overcard is going to fall in most cases. (57% as I remember)
      In that case, we are going to just give up our hand instantly.
      Even if no overcard falls till the turn (in 68% it will), we are going to give it up if he bets.
      I don't know, this just seems too weak. We don't even get the implied odds to set mine, and being OOP doesn't make it any easier to get value.

      Yes, we have decent equity against him, but OOP, and with a very vulnerable hand. It just seems as a chip-spew.
      I'd rather 4bet/broke to create fold equity against AK/AQ, which has good equity against us.

      What about 4bet/broke? We make him fold AQ, AK, which has good equity against us.

      All in all: hoping to get payed OOP from this guy seems a bad idea. We can only hope to hit a set, but we don't have the implied odds. What do you think?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello fotakis,

      As you answered yourself already the question "nit", therefore being OOP rather fold the hand, at the best you going to face a AK hand, although you playing it OOP and will be trouble to play it. ;) Nor we can't set-mine here.

      Best Regards.