[NL2-NL10] FR10 ZOOM T8s completing

    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      i think i played this really badly

      PokerStars - $0.10 NL ZOOM - Holdem - 9 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: $9.90
      Hero (SB): $17.86
      BB: $5.60
      UTG: $10.00
      UTG+1: $20.64
      UTG+2: $40.71
      MP: $10.60
      MP+1: $9.66
      CO: $15.72

      Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has 8:spade: T:spade:

      fold, fold, fold, fold, MP+1 calls $0.10, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.05, BB checks
      MP 25/0/4h
      BB 7/7/46h
      isolate?

      Flop: ($0.30, 3 players) 4:spade: 6:heart: 3:spade:
      Hero bets $0.15, BB calls $0.15, MP+1 calls $0.15

      Turn: ($0.75, 3 players) Q:club:
      Hero bets $0.37, BB raises to $0.74, MP+1 calls $0.74, Hero calls $0.37
      ?(

      River: ($2.97, 3 players) K:spade:
      Hero bets $1.99, BB calls $1.99, MP+1 raises to $8.67 and is all-in, fold, fold

      MP+1 wins $8.54

      nothing makes sense? :f_biggrin:
  • 17 replies
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Raising there means a pretty strong hand. But still, I could not fold this hand. :f_mad:
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      Raising there means a pretty strong hand. But still, I could not fold this hand. :f_mad:
      i'm still wondering :f_biggrin: thing is that his line looks like a draw that hit, the question is if it could be a weaker one. i have 4th nuts which is not THAT bad

      my low leads aren't as much for fold equity as they are for building a pot. i wanted to fire a nice valuebet if i hit
    • LudiCoka
      LudiCoka
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.06.2009 Posts: 266
      Your play doesn't make sense to me personally. I don't like completing sb there, IMHO raise or fold better.

      As played, betting draws to build up a pot if you hit is just wrong. You have no fold equity on the flop, no point in betting, just play multiway OOP draw passively. Turn is kind of tricky, you get 4:1 (or 1:4 I'm not sure what goes on which side) and it's not even enough but your hit means he calls a bet on river at least. His line looks like weak player pretty strong hand play and I'd fold with T high flushdraw, maybe I'd call with nutflush draw there.

      As played, river is all-in ofc.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      i wish i had something to argue just for the sake of arguing but i don't :f_biggrin:

      i don't usually play my draws like that... or do i? not in freeplay pot :f_eek:
      anyway i've already done the right thingh which was to stop the session :f_biggrin:
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Tomaloc,

      Preflop: Both options are fine, for the given odds I don't mind even completing.
      Flop: Although I'd still CB 20 cents here than so small which just tells them that you have a draw. We can't really Check/Call while we don't even know if we have the implied odds in freeplay pot.

      As played
      Turn: The problem here is that you could be against better FDs here and might have reversed implied odds but meanwhile we getting so good odds shouldn't be that wrong even if you are able to lay down later on as well. But I wouldn't bet anymore but rather Check/Fold most likely unless we get implied odds.

      As played
      River: I would have played the same way, I doubt that the guy is going to shove in multiway pot with a lot worse hands than flush. Good fold!

      Best Regards.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      what about the betting?

      i get it that i should be higher if i'm betting but does it make sense to bet turn also? a bit bigger like .45~.55 i assume
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Tomaloc
      what about the betting?

      i get it that i should be higher if i'm betting but does it make sense to bet turn also? a bit bigger like .45~.55 i assume
      We rather should be Check/Folding > 2nd barreling multiway.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      [quote][/i]Originally posted by veriz[i]
      We can't really Check/Call while we don't even know if we have the implied odds in freeplay pot.[/quote]Could you explain your thought process behind this Veriz?
      I have never thought about this before in such a way, and you could help a lot to make me understand this concept.
    • johnnycrosby
      johnnycrosby
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2012 Posts: 1
      would have maybe put him on a set or maybe kq, would have called wif k high flush tho, but then if he has a set or kq thers always a chance of him hittin full-house, hard choice but fink u would need 2 call in this situation ;) unlucky tho .
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      [quote]Originally posted by Imimba1
      [quote][/i]Originally posted by veriz[i]
      We can't really Check/Call while we don't even know if we have the implied odds in freeplay pot.[/quote]Could you explain your thought process behind this Veriz?
      I have never thought about this before in such a way, and you could help a lot to make me understand this concept.[/quote]His limping range is very wide so which means he can't hit much either. Usually if you Check/Call the flop then the case is that you assume getting paid on later streets but have will you be able to get paid if you don't know even if he is strong and willing to pay. Not to mention could easily be even reversed implied odds.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Originally posted by veriz
      Flop: Although I'd still CB 20 cents here than so small which just tells them that you have a draw. We can't really Check/Call while we don't even know if we have the implied odds in freeplay pot.
      Ok, now I get it while c/c-ing is bad. But is it better to bet the flop, and c/f the turn if someone calls? In that case, we are technically bluffing in a multiway-pot OOP, which seems strange to me. What do you think?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      Originally posted by veriz
      Flop: Although I'd still CB 20 cents here than so small which just tells them that you have a draw. We can't really Check/Call while we don't even know if we have the implied odds in freeplay pot.
      Ok, now I get it while c/c-ing is bad. But is it better to bet the flop, and c/f the turn if someone calls? In that case, we are technically bluffing in a multiway-pot OOP, which seems strange to me. What do you think?
      Usually in freeplay pot and being in such a multiway pot yes, we don't make better hands to fold most likely and maybe even not better FDs.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      FLOP
      One last question: why is B/f better then c/f on the flop?
      I mean, bluffing in a multiway-pot OOP <? EV=??>
      vs.
      abandoning the hand (<EV=0>)
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      FLOP
      One last question: why is B/f better then c/f on the flop?
      I mean, bluffing in a multiway-pot OOP <? EV=??>
      vs.
      abandoning the hand (<EV=0>)
      Cause I explained already that we can pick up the sizing ourselves what kind of size. Cause vs pot size we might not have the implied odds while it's a freeplay pot.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Originally posted by veriz
      Cause I explained already that we can pick up the sizing ourselves what kind of size. Cause vs pot size we might not have the implied odds while it's a freeplay pot.
      So, in conclusion, we have 3 options theoretically:
      1) Someone is probably going to bet on the flop if we check, and we are going to call if that happens.
      2) We are betting out
      3) We check, and if someone bets, we fold, because its very hard to get value OOP in a limped pot.

      I understand that 2) is better then 1).

      But why do you don't even CONSIDER/MENTION the 3rd option? You dont even mention it.

      [Sorry if this is getting a little annoying to you, but I honestly want to understand this peculiar situation. :f_cry: ]

      Thanks in advance Veriz :f_love:
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      a
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Nah, it's not annoying, just a question you want to get answered and that's why I am here for.

      Well, it's very likely that someone is betting being in multiway pot. Of course I am not saying that Checking is totally wrong or anything but we could just win the pot right away and we would be happy, we should have enough of fold equity here. While not that many hands hit such a board.