Project: $50 -> $500 PLO

    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      This project started for the Finnish community, but I thought that there might be some PLO microgrinders in English community as well who might be interested in this.

      The starting point is that I have $50 as PokerStars, and silver VIP-level. $50 Stellar reward is waiting in 1300 VPP's, which is little worse than 100% deposit bonus (which clears in about 850 VPP's). The aim is to have $500 bankroll after the summer.

      As the goal is to raise up in stakes, I will use pretty aggressive BRM. 20bin is the borderline. So when I have 20bin for the current stakes, I will use any excessive money to take shots at higher level. If I go back to 20bin or less, I drop down to that previous level.

      So let's say I have $40, that is 20bin for PLO2. I win $10 in a session, so I have $50. I can use that $10 which is over 20bin@PLO2 to play in PLO5. When my bankroll goes over $100, I can start using that money to play in PLO10. And so on.

      Eventually this will mean that I will go up and down in stakes. And I might go broke, as I have only 20bin in the lowest stakes. But that is a risk that I am aware of. As I am assuming that I am a winning player in micros, I am confident that I can use aggressive BRM. If I would use very conservative, like 50bin BRM, I would be grinding that PLO2 all the way until next christmas. And that is not what I am aiming for.

      Now I can't say that this is THE way to grind in micros, this is just one way to do it. There is a risk that I am accepting, but the reward (rising up in stakes) is also better than in conservative BRM. If someone thinks about same kind of BRM, he should be ready for a lot of moving up and down, and situations where he will lose a large portion of his bankroll during a single session. So if any of those is likely to affect tilting, aggressive BRM is not for him.
  • 96 replies
    • Fr0z3nByt3
      Fr0z3nByt3
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.01.2011 Posts: 83
      GL Looking forward to updates!
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      Things kicked off in a coaching today, I 4 tabled PLO2 for 358 hands and made profit for $5.16. There were some interesting hands and a lot of discussion about how to adjust in PLO2. This is one of those interesting hands:

      BTN: $1.88 (94 bb)
      SB: $2.51 (125.5 bb)
      Hero (BB): $2 (100 bb)
      CO: $3.07 (153.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with T:diamond: 8:heart: 9:heart: A:diamond:
      2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to $0.06, SB calls $0.04

      Flop: ($0.12) A:heart: 9:club: 5:heart: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.08, SB calls $0.08

      Turn: ($0.28) Q:heart: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks

      River: ($0.28) 2:club: (2 players)
      SB bets $0.15, Hero folds

      Villain is 45/8/0 for 18 hands. Postflop aggression is minimal.

      Flop is pretty basic, top2 and a flushdraw. That flushdraw is pretty much a blocker, as we don't really want to see heart coming up. But it came on turn, and here is a spot to think about the hand.

      Is there a value if we bet? What worse hands will villain call with? What did he have on the flop that he calls the turn? Hero has very small flush, so if we bet here we are unlikely to get any value. If we get (from sets, 2 pairs etc) it is one bet only. So that's why I am checking, I can get the value on the river if villain checks. If he has a set, he will often call the river bet as we checked the turn.

      Discussion popped up as some of the members would have called, as that is a great spot for villain to bluff as we checked the turn. I agree that it's a great spot. But for villain to bluff there, he would need to be a thinking player. And that is a rare thing in PLO2. As the villain is that passive, I think he will check all the small flushes, straights and the rest of his showdown hands. Now when he bets hald a pot, that looks a lot like a value bet. I am pretty sure that he has higher flush quite often enough.

      If that player was any more active, like 45/30/10, I would call that river as I check the turn to induce him to bluff. But now I check the turn to keep the pot small. And on the river villain has either nutflush or he is making something that our reads haven't seen. I know that 18 hands is a small sample, but I have to make decisions and assumptions based on the information that I have.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      After the coaching I went to the Zoom tables, and boy was that a mistake. As my hud isn't working, it is superhard to play at PLO2 Zoom. As there are so many bad players, but bad in different way, that the normal tag-abc isn't the most profitable way to play. There are HUGE calling stations, and then there are very aggressive players. And against those you make the money in total opposite ways. So while playing abc, you give away your edge to both.

      I lost 6bin to the Zoom, EV was -5bin too. After that I went to normal tables and lost some. But there were couple of BIG pots where I got coolered and sucked out.

      I also collected some FPP's that I used to play. Got almost $11 from there so the first day got a small profit. Total bankroll is now $57.95.

      The first goal is to stay alive until I get that $50 reward, which will boost my bankroll a lot. As soon as I get $60 I will start in PLO5 and work with my BRM from there.
    • fruktpuff
      fruktpuff
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 3,982
      Welcome to English blogging Kyy!

      Nice to see our coaches getting involved and helping motivate members.

      Been following your play for ages in the PLO Study group already, will be nice to have a blog to follow as well!

      Looking forwards to updates!

      Regards,
      Richard
    • arba1992
      arba1992
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2010 Posts: 5,266
      gl:)
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      Played a short 500 hand session today, and got nice $8.58 profit in PLO2. Bankroll is now $66.53 and tomorrow I will hit PLO5 tables.

      Today we had a small discussion about this project in PLO study group. With 20bin BRM, is this a gambling or not? I think that it's not. 20bin sounds pretty thin for PLO, but the thing is that I am starting on PLO2. My expected winrate in PLO2 is skyhigh, and I am playing sort of small ball. All those means that my risk of having a 20bin downswing is pretty small. IF I don't tilt.

      So far my winrate has been about 30bb/100, which is pretty correct imo. I haven't had any card rush or won a lot of flips. I have run a lot against coolers, and my EV is the same as my winrate. When I put those numbers to variance simulator, is shows me that within 3 MILLION hands, the biggest downswing is 16bin. So to have 20bin downswing is pretty unlikely. And as I have said, it is a risk that I am aware of.

      When my bankroll gets bigger, the risk of going broke goes even down. As for an example, with $70 bankroll I would need to lose 26bin to go broke (20 for PLO2 and 6 for PLO5).
    • ClimaxingWalrus
      ClimaxingWalrus
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 132
      Enjoy getting virtually raped by the rake. GL though you can probably still beat it.
    • Tiltmeifucan
      Tiltmeifucan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.04.2012 Posts: 471
      Hello kyy :)

      Cool blog :f_grin: , i really like your aggressive BRM too bad it's not for me :f_biggrin:

      What is variance simulator? Is it for free? Maybe i can download it somewhere?

      Good luck with your chalange, will be following you!

      Best regards, Tilt
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      Variance simulator: http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/variance_simulator/

      I don't think that rake is going to be a problem, as it is 4% at PLO2. Along with decent rakeback (stellars + FPP's) it is THE best in the market. As a Gold-star you get 24 FPP's per raked dollar at PLO2. That equals 37% rakeback. Put those stellar rewards which are about 12% at PLO2 and you have 4% rake plus 50% rakeback.

      Now if you get raped by that, you definitely have some problems. ;)
    • Solidius
      Solidius
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 209
      Subscribed. I know only the basics of PLO and for the hand where you hit a flush OTT it is snap call for me, that's because i am bad at PLO. I really like your thought proccess even though it's just as low as NL2.
    • Litomska
      Litomska
      Global
      Joined: 30.05.2012 Posts: 4
      gl :s_thumbsup: :s_thumbsup:
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      interesting :)
    • conall88
      conall88
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 1,715
      gl my friend, crush it :s_cool:
    • TurnitAce
      TurnitAce
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2011 Posts: 315
      are you playing zoom or normal tables?
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      Normal tables. I really don't see any reason to play zoom, unless I have only few minutes to play or I am playing with my mobile toy. I can make a longer post about it if someone is interested.
    • fruktpuff
      fruktpuff
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 3,982
      I'm often interested in the way you rationalise things, so I'm open to reading it, if you don't mind writing it!
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      Well, in zoom the flop% is about 20%. At weekends and evenings it might go up to 25%. At the best it's 30% at PLO2. Now if you look the normal tables, there are usually at least 10 tables with flop% over 50. At weekends, there are over 20 tables with over 50%. Everyone should realize that the expected winnings is much higher per hand in those normal tables. So to outcome that, zoom should provide a much larger quantity. With 4 tabling, I get about 5-600 hands per hour. With 8-9 tabling normal tables I get little bit more. And to me, 8 tabling is about the same effort as 4 tabling zoom.

      Now I know that not everyone is like me. For someone 2 tabling zoom is a lot easier than 4 tabling normal tables.

      But as I see it, there is absolutely no reason for me to play zoom tables. Unless I have like 15 minutes to play.

      Another thing is that my HUD isn' working on zoom. And to play there without a HUD is quite hard. As the villain's types are kinda polarized, there are huge calling stations, huge nits and huge aggressors. And you get the value from those in totally different way. And everytime I am in the hand, I have to quess who the opponent(s) are. So I have to play pure ABC, I can't play my opponents. Which is THE most important way to win money in micros.

      Didn't play yesterday, and I doubt I will play today. As I am now heading to see Machine Head and Metallica.
    • fruktpuff
      fruktpuff
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 3,982
      What tracker do you use?
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      Hem2, it has worked before. With the latest release it isn't and I have downloaded the blitz file which should have fixed it. But even if it would work, I would play in the normal tables.