Collusion, multiaccounting - how to defend ourselves?

    • ramadas
      ramadas
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      Joined: 02.09.2011 Posts: 462
      Not only you need to find good table without many regs to make your life difficult, but also people who are cheating:

      I noticed that when somebody is leaving tables, they leave in pairs or 3 people at once... not always but often enough... Please also be aware of it.

      from Wikipedia:
      Online play has allows for new methods of cheating while other methods based on physical objects such as cards or chips are impossible.

      One new form of cheating is the use of bots. These are programs that play instead of a real human. Though their accuracy and their ability to win are in disputed but their use normally violates the rules of online cardrooms, so using them is by definition cheating.[2][3]

      Collusion in online poker is relatively easy and much more difficult to immediately spot if executed well. Cheaters can engage in telephone calls or instant messaging, discussing their cards, since nobody can see them. Sometimes one person may be using two or more computers to play multiple hands at the same table under different aliases (since many broadband plans offer customers multiple IP addresses, this can conveniently and cheaply be done without the likelihood of immediate detection). Such tactics can give cheaters an advantage that is difficult to work against. However, online poker cardrooms keep records of every hand played, and collusion can often be detected by finding any of several detectable patterns (such as folding good hands to a small bet, as it is known that another player has a better hand). Users who frequently sit at the same tables will be flagged by poker rooms and their play will be closely monitored. Often, such users will be warned they have been flagged, in an effort to deter collusion.

      Another online method of cheating is "multiaccounting", where a player will register several accounts to his name (or, perhaps more commonly, to non-poker-playing friends and family members). This could be done in order to facilitate chip dumping and other methods of equity maximization in tournaments, or simply to enable a well-known player to play incognito.


      From another site:

      The type of cheating that does go on falls into two categories of active cheating and passive cheating. Active cheating works just like it does in real life, where players work in teams to raise other players out of the pot or juice the pot for each other. This play manages to maximize value bets because both players are as far as money goes, playing as one. Fortunately, this style of play can usually be detected by the trained eye, although reporting this action usually will not result in anything. The poker sites usually have automated software that tries to interpret if you are engaged in this type of betting. I would imagine it tries to find if you are raising weak hands when you normally don't or if you constantly do better when playing with a certain player, etc. People are caught using these methods, just so you know.

      Passive cheating is generally harder to catch and is also known as collusion. This is when players share their cards with one another to help them make better choices when it comes to odds. For the most part, this cheating is normally not very beneficial to the cheaters to begin with except in few situations where the information may actually help. With more than 2 players in on it however, it may become a problem with 4 players are all sharing information. This is difficult to catch because in this scenario, cheaters will fold their hand when they realize another one of theirs has a stronger hand. Since you can't see mucked cards online, it's impossible to know if people are folding monsters. However, the poker site may or may not be able to detect this type of play. For instance, if a flop showed A/K/2 and cheater #1 held KK while cheater #2 held AK, if cheater #2 folded to a bet from cheater #1, there should (one would hope) be some warning bells raised from the server end.

      Lastly, there have been inquiries about the possibility of cheat software or ways to view your opponent's cards. Obviously these inquiries are usually made by players who want to cheat instead of the worried players. Coming from a computer background, I have a good knowledge of how most software applications are written and how server software operates. My assumption would be that Party Poker only sends to your computer data about the board and your hand. Only at showdown does it actually send data about other players to your computer. Sending the data for each player would be a completely insane approach in terms of security- and any good programmer would know not to write a server in this fashion. You can say your computer is on a "need to know basis" when it comes to poker data. Because of this, there is no feasible way to cheat because you are only limited to the amount of data you have on your computer. There is also close to a zero perecent chance of being able to send data to online poker servers that would have you magically win a hand or get cards of your choosing. It would take deliberate coding on the part of the online sites to have this happen- and again, it would not be in their best interests (or so we hope).


      So how can you spot it? Or is it better to go to nearest casino...
  • 8 replies
    • ramadas
      ramadas
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.09.2011 Posts: 462
      And more:
      [Edited by HollyMichelle]
    • daun666
      daun666
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      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 540
      Play HU
      :D
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
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      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,921
      Hi ramadas,

      Once again I've removed your link as it contains another affiliate. This is against our forum principles as I told you yesterday here

      Please refrain from doing this again.

      Best regards,
      Gary
    • ramadas
      ramadas
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.09.2011 Posts: 462
      Hi Holly,

      How can I know one link is bad and other is good?
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,921
      Originally posted by ramadas
      Hi Holly,

      How can I know one link is bad and other is good?
      Hi ramadas,

      If the site you are linking to offers bonus codes/rakeback deals/strategical content or any thing that rivals what we do here then it will not be allowed for obvious reasons.

      I trust you understand this :)

      Best regards,
      Gary
    • ramadas
      ramadas
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.09.2011 Posts: 462
      Originally posted by HollyMichelle
      Originally posted by ramadas
      Hi Holly,

      How can I know one link is bad and other is good?
      Hi ramadas,

      If the site you are linking to offers bonus codes/rakeback deals/strategical content or any thing that rivals what we do here then it will not be allowed for obvious reasons.

      I trust you understand this :)

      Best regards,
      Gary
      OK, so let's quote:

      How Players May Collude in Online Poker
      It seems, if you really think about it, that it would be all too easy for 2 players (sometimes 3 and 4) to sit at the same table and call each other over the phone, or to use an instant message system to tell each other what cards they are holding. This can work in a few different ways for the cheaters. First, they can protect each other. If Cheater A has pocket jacks and Cheater B has pocket aces and goes all in, Cheater A knows to fold, where if he were playing alone at the table he would make the call in a hot second. The second way it works is the worst. Cheater A may have the nuts (best possible, unbeatable hand), Cheater A bets, and some poor sap has the second best hand and calls. Then Cheater B raises the pot for Cheater A and poor guy with second best hand gets taken for 4 times what he would have if without any collusion.

      More times than not, the person who has been cheated thinks it is just bad luck, or a bad beat. Unless the cheaters make a mistake. Taking the same scenario that I have mentioned above, at the end of the hand when the cards show, Cheater B accidentally shows his cards and the player that just lost with a great hand sees the person was raising with nothing. The person that just lost should get suspicious and watch the players very closely.

      What Can You Do About Collusion in Online Poker?
      What can you do when you think you have been cheated or feel that there are 2 players colluding in online poker? You can confront the players, but this is useless. The cheaters will do one of a few things when accused at the table.

      1. They won't answer and will tone down their cheating at that table for the moment.
      2. They will deny it and say that you are just whining because you lost.
      3. One or both players will flee the table and move on to their next victims.

      The best thing to do (don't accuse the cheaters at the table - this way they tone it down and the poker site's support department can't catch them doing it right then) is write to the support of the site where you are playing , include (if you can) their full user ID's, and what table it happened at and even the hand number it happened on. If you do not recall the hand number you may want to get a hand history report before you write to support, so that you have the exact hand number for them to review.

      Collusion in Online Poker Tournaments
      Light-playing friends in a tournament is also a type of online poker collusion. Say you are in a NL tournament and you and your best friend end up at the same table. You get a nut hand and it is you and your best friend heads up. You check to him/her. This is highly illegal, especially in tournaments. Other players at the table may suspect collusion because of the check, when all you were trying to do is to not take your friends chips.

      When I first started playing online poker, I played at a fake chip site. People that wanted to play the biggest games available would actually purchase chips for $50.00 per million (I was a chip seller). One group of women (there were 3 or 4 of them) decided to cheat. They would all sit at the highest staked table and buy in with millions of chips. Every single hand (no matter what they had) they would raise each other max. Every pot at the table with them was HUGE, and more times than not, one of the cheaters would take the pot. People started just not playing at the same table with them, but they would filter into tables under different names. This was so frustrating because the site was on the verge of closing and had no support team to write. We (a bunch of regular players) took it upon ourselves to break them. We would join their table and buy in minimum amount of chips, win a pot, then jump off the table and bank the winnings, then jump back on the table and buy in minimum again. Either our planned worked and we broke them or they got tired of winning only a very small amount of chips when they did beat us, because one day they just weren't there anymore.

      I know for a fact that Poker Stars is on top of the issue of collusion in online poker and takes action when it is reported. Last year there was actually a case where people had money refunded into their account because there was proof of collusion. This brings me back to writing the support team of whatever site you are playing on at the first signs of collusion. Support teams can watch these players and see if players are really colluding. If collusion is uncovered, any money you were wrongfully taken for could make its way back to you.

      More Signs of Online Poker Collusion
      The signs are easy to read. If you see 2 players at the same table constantly and never see them bump heads in a hand, or lose money or chips to one another, this is one big sign to watch for. Another is 2 players constantly raising each other. Granted you will always run into a few players at the table (more times than not, they are men) that just have it out for each other and max raise every pot they are in together. This is just two people trying to show they are better than each other, and it should be easy not to confuse this with collusion. I say players like this should just unzip, lay them out on the table, see whose is bigger, and call it a night.
    • ramadas
      ramadas
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.09.2011 Posts: 462
      Just google this:
      Bot Ring Discovered On Poker Stars

      or read this:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11250835
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
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      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
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