[NL2-NL10] NL5 AAo

    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      SB:
      $13.18
      BB:
      $3.71
      UTG1:
      $1.86
      UTG2:
      $4.24
      Hero:
      $1.71
      MP2:
      $2.02
      MP3:
      $1.56
      CO:
      $2.19
      BU:
      $3.3

      0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy.com Elephant 0.106 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A:heart: , A:diamond:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, 5 folds, BB calls $0.10.

      Flop: ($0.32) K:heart: , K:spade: , 6:heart: (2 players)
      BB bets $0.1, Hero raises to $0.30, BB calls $0.20.

      Turn: ($0.92) 8:club: (2 players)
      BB bets $1.25, Hero folds, BB gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $0.92

      (?) How much of an overpair is my hand on flops like these, when there are pair already on the board and my opp is aggresive?

      (?) On the turn, yeah my hand is so called "overpair" and I should bet/raise, but seriously, do I? You think he would be so big with QQ/JJ/TT?

      Don't know if I should have shoved or not.. :/
  • 9 replies
    • moharith
      moharith
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2011 Posts: 509
      -- editing

      -- editing

      Well I do find this a hard spot, since he donks on the turn. And I think either a shove or fold is right.

      I did a couple of ranges:

      When his hand range includes some K's QQ+:


      Board: K:heart: K:spade: 6:heart:  8:club:
             Equity   Profit Split
      MP1    51.36%  49.27%   2.09% { AdAh }
      BB     48.64%  46.55%   2.09% { JJ+, AKs, KTs+, AKo }



      When his hand range includes some K's JJ+:


      Board: K:heart: K:spade: 6:heart:  8:club:
             Equity   Profit Split
      MP1    51.39%  49.30%   2.09% { AdAh }
      BB     48.61%  46.52%   2.09% { JJ+, AKs, KTs+, AKo }




      Board: K:heart: K:spade: 6:heart:  8:club:
             Equity   profit   Split
      MP1    58.70%  56.32%   2.38% { AdAh }
      BB     41.30%  38.92%   2.38% { JJ+, 88, AKs, AKo }
      : Even with a pp 8's added on the turn.


      Board: K:heart: K:spade: 6:heart:  8:club:
             Equity   Profit Split
      MP1    52.63%  48.46%   4.17% { AdAh }
      BB     47.37%  43.20%   4.17% { QQ+, AKs, AKo }




      You have a small hand sample What are his betting patterns? , have you seen this play of him more? Have you seen him bluffing? Is he trying to slowplay with his minbet -> call ? etc..

      Depending on the reads i'd make my decision.

      But for unknown:

      I'd shove and take the pot or make a note, in combination with the equity. You need to put in $1,26 to win $2,18.
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      Hey moharith,
      Thanks for somewhat deep analysis. Well the problem is I'm learning to multitable, won't go crazy yet, still at 4 tables.. But since I play MSS which is easy to play (in comparison to BSS FR or SH) I want to focus a bit more on quantity over quality, but I still get that quality is important, that's why I ask here about unsure hands.. :/

      So no, didn't have reads, mostly don't - just stats :/ I would fold most of the time, but since he's AF is that big (3.3) over that (big) VPIP (28), that means he plays really aggressive postflop, and he can't hit most of the times.. :/

      I'd shove and take the pot or make a note, in combination with the equity. You need to put in $1,26 to win $2,18.


      Yeah I guess shoving is good, because even if you seem to lose it, you have note.. But what if you're like multi-tabling 12+ tables (which is my aim to do at NL5), then you probably won't remember his reaction, would you still shove then?

      Thanks!
    • moharith
      moharith
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2011 Posts: 509
      Well i'm no pro, but suggest you dont multitable that much yet. Your missing a whole lot of action.

      If you find gameplay is to slow, try reading players en replay hands during game. It will make the time go faster and worthwhile.

      When you have enough notes/stats on players and you are sure about your game then increase the tables your playing.

      You will only increase your losings if you ain't winning on 1 table yet.

      Tip: First focus on quality then focus on quantity.. You will ruin your play if you teach yourself wrong routines, that are hard to unlearn :)
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      Well, I'm playing 3-4 tables currently, that's not a lot I think..

      I get you moharith, really do, but shouldn't I play better BSS FR then? or even SH? I mean, to me it seems MSS is almost made for multitabling aka "more hands per hour" because we play a small percentage of hands and we have only a few toughs spot so it's easier to keep an eye on multiple tables.. + since our winrate isn't supposed to be very big with MSS we get something back through playing more hands via rakeback/bonuses..

      I don't know, maybe I'm missing something, but I always thought that MSS was made more for this stuff, and if we're into heavy analysis BSS SH 2-tabling is way to go..

      Hmm? ?(
    • moharith
      moharith
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2011 Posts: 509
      My multitable advice was aimed at your 12 table suggestion :) Playing 3/4 tables now is fine I think.

      If your learning : 3 prefferably with 1 replay table is a good suggestion. That keeps a good overview.

      Teach yourself to make small notes (limpers, coldcallers, strange plays, rocks, lines, etc) I've read the discussion about MSS'ers are rakebackgrinders, and playing BE(breakeven) is a good goal, but I disagree.

      I think with the correct play and notes, and sometimes stepping outside of the charts you can also get a positive winrate by improving your game. I also think you can still heavy analyze your MSS play though, MSS is just about making your post-flop decisions easier.

      Playing too much tables will make your play predictable and people will exploit your leaks. :)
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      Thanks for tips moharith,

      3 tables + replayer sounds good, especially in the beginning where I have to ask questions like this.. I think I should really get into habit of making notes..

      Actually I do mark multitablers and players that limp, but that's about it.. Of course, if someone goes all in preflop with some garbage I'll remember it, but usually lean on stats..

      Are you playing MSS yourself?

      Best regards!
    • moharith
      moharith
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2011 Posts: 509
      Ive player mss for some time, then switched to others and now full into mss.

      :) But im also still learning :f_biggrin:
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Hello :)

      If you want to learn multitabling, add 1 extra table every week and see how it goes. Just dont go from 2 to 4 suddenly altho the impact is minimal with those numbers

      Regarding your hand. You block A nutflush so his donking suggest you are either way ahead or way behind. Therefore I do not like your raise, we can easily call and maybe extract value later on when it is clear we have the best hand.

      Now when you raise, majority of his range is just Kx especially with this overbet. You can't continue on the Turn so folding is the best play but it would be better to play the Flop accordingly as you can still extract value from his bluffs

      - Gerv
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      If you want to learn multitabling, add 1 extra table every week and see how it goes. Just dont go from 2 to 4 suddenly altho the impact is minimal with those numbers

      Well I'm up to 4 tables now.. And will probably add +1 when I feel I get to do everything in time and have some time for more.. :)

      So, by raising him, in theory, he folds a lot of his bluffs and only continue to play monster hands, like Kx in this example.. And by calling the flop, we can give him opportunity to like, bet small on the turn (if he want to bluff us again), and then we get more value from his bluffs? I hope that's the point..

      we can easily call and maybe extract value later on when it is clear we have the best hand.

      I just don't get one thing, how can we be clear if we do the have the best hand? Obviously another A on the board gives us a boat, but other than that? In this situation I'm actually happy that he overbet, since if he didn't I wouldn't know where I'm standing at all.. :evil: