[NL20-NL50] NL50 FR AA in BU

    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem
      7 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG ($50) 100bb
      UTG+1 ($22.52) 45bb
      MP ($50) 100bb
      CO ($71.58) 143bb
      Hero (BTN) ($50.50) 101bb
      SB ($83.98) 168bb
      BB ($50) 100bb

      Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 7 players) Hero is BTN A:diamond: A:heart:
      4 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, SB calls $1.25, 1 fold

      Flop: 7:club: 5:club: 8:club: ($3.50, 2 players)
      SB bets $3.50, Hero raises to $9, SB raises to $30.50, Hero folds

      Final Pot: $43

      SB wins $41.93 (net +$9.93)

      Hero lost $10.50

      Stats 35 hands
      37/20/10/0/33/67
      67/100/30/13

      Basically unknown but I think I did the right thing.
  • 9 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello BadeaCelRau,

      Doesn't make sense to raise in first place on such a flop and turn your hand into bluff while he even pots it. I'd just play way ahead/behind here.

      Best Regards.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Hey,

      I also think that you should make it less pre, 2x or 2.5x is better. Why is this? When you bet X it is to win Y, when you are betting 3x the big blinds your raise needs to work a lot higher % of the time than when you 3x.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by pleno1
      Hey,

      I also think that you should make it less pre, 2x or 2.5x is better. Why is this? When you bet X it is to win Y, when you are betting 3x the big blinds your raise needs to work a lot higher % of the time than when you 3x.
      Dislike 2x raise, then at least 2,5x. 2x just gives him odds to call with any crap and play postflop. Would even say that it's kind of bad to min-raise unless you using it as default and your stealing range is something like 60%.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      I think we should steal 60%+ and if they want to call oop with crap then thats fine by me :) 3x is generally going to be a mistake from a GTO perspective.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by pleno1
      I think we should steal 60%+ and if they want to call oop with crap then thats fine by me :) 3x is generally going to be a mistake from a GTO perspective.
      You assume there being that many exploits while it's FR & NL50?
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      I don't think FR matters once it gets to btn vs the blinds. People have to adjust differently in FR but when it has folded around to the button it should be treated similarily to 6max IMO.

      I tend to raise to 2.5x as my standard and then if somebody is remotely aggressive in the BB then I will make it 2x. I would only ever consider making it 3x if the BB was a huge fish. If players really want to call pre flop with 97o or other trashy hands then we should work on our post flop game plan and not be affraid to play in position vs a very weak and wide range that we can put pressure on on most boards. One thing I have noticed with students of mine is a reluctance to play pots in position, either not opening cut off wide enough or 3x'n the button will both be long term mistakes that will hinder our red line.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      I don't think FR matters once it gets to btn vs the blinds. People have to adjust differently in FR but when it has folded around to the button it should be treated similarily to 6max IMO.

      It matters from this part that people tend to 3bet less in FR games from blinds unless it's higher limits where it becomes more like SH. As we see this guy tends to even 3bet pretty lose I would most likely use also 2,5x but I wouldn't say that 3x is totally wrong if the guy still goes for it (no sample, he is kind of maniac so far playing 37/20 for FR).

      I tend to raise to 2.5x as my standard and then if somebody is remotely aggressive in the BB then I will make it 2x. I would only ever consider making it 3x if the BB was a huge fish.

      Agree on that and that's also what I would use by default.

      If players really want to call pre flop with 97o or other trashy hands then we should work on our post flop game plan and not be affraid to play in position vs a very weak and wide range that we can put pressure on on most boards.

      Then the hard part is how good is hero's postflop edge on the guy and what kind of reads we have on him. As you may understand that the guy will also have decent fold equity vs us and would even have to spend less money (with for example Check/Raise) vs our CB + of course vs our wide range he will have tons of fold equity on many boards.

      One thing I have noticed with students of mine is a reluctance to play pots in position, either not opening cut off wide enough or 3x'n the button will both be long term mistakes that will hinder our red line.

      The higher you move the more likely you have to raise less (start use 2,5xbb), especially if you have such a stealing range as we spoke about (60%). But I wouldn't say that it affects your red line that much cause you still going to lose with red line if you play the same style with 2,5xbb. Just the amount will be a bit smaller and you going to save some bbs in long run.
    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      Love the discussion ^^

      I normally minraise, I find it superior. First of all I lose less so my steal has to work not so often. Second, most people adjust by playing too loose and fit-or-fold. Third, because of such a small OR, the resteal has to be small and regs are less willing to resteal fearing the prospect of playing 3bet pots OOP. I found that although it should work less often it works more often than a 3x steal. Fourth, if they resteal more, they open up their range, which is exactly what I want and if there are guys who will 3bet huge just to come over the top it becomes very profitable.

      But in this case the blinds were a fish and this unknown guy so I opted for a bigger raise. :] I don't think I turned my hand into a bluff just raised for value but he probably hit the board big. I fear calling puts me in guessing mode. The second barrel will probably come and what will I do then, what will I do on the river when the board is likely to be either 4 card flush or 4 card straight?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Well, I am asking you this way. If you get called on the flop, what you doing then on turn? I assume you shipping? :P So it kinda doesn't change much and if he pots again on turn while we go for pot control we reevaluate according the card, that's at least my plan and at some point I'd even fold. Can't see him potting 2x with a lot worse unless he is some kind of maniac.