Difference between rebuy and non-rebuy tournies

    • ragney
      ragney
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      I'm kinda a tourny donk, I mainly play HU/SH games. Played a few rebuy tournies lately and got some questions:

      Duration, does rebuy tournies takes long to finish?
      Players, rebuy tournies = more fish?
      Playstyle, do we need to play tighter compared to normal MTT's or?
      Most important differences between non rebuy MTT and rebuy (except the fact you can buy back in the tourny?)
  • 3 replies
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,086
      I don't know what the correct approach to these donkaments is, but surely, people tend to plan to rebuy a lot of times and therefore play a lot looser. If they are reluctant to play a coinflip in a regular tourney, they sure as hell aren't in rebuys. They clearly make more big minus chip-EV decisions, knowingly or not, in rebuys than i regular tourneys.

      Some players clearly play to exploit this phenomenon. For instance, a 200 BB first in shove preflop with a monster isn't a brilliant move in a regular tourney, but it might be in a rebuy. Likewise, a limp with the same hand isn't all that rare either, and often pays off.

      I have always been mystified by good players and pros happily playing like idiots and rebuying 15-20 times (the last time to get like 7-8 BB). They claim that it is the correct strategy.

      For the actual rebuy, it is correct strategy to rebuy if you are a better player than the field and get a decent pile of chips to play with. An ICM calculation (impossible to carry out in practice in a large tourney + the prize pool is by definition unknown) would probably say that you get a little more $EV than you pay for when rebuing early on.

      Wether playing like an idiot is called for early on is called for is another matter. It might depend on the prize structure. Having a gigantic stack when the rebuy period is over is clearly not bad. Playing nitty will not in general achieve this. Then, playing like and idiot might only guarantee that we hav a minimal stack that we paid the absoulte maximum for when the rebuy ends.

      I'd be happy too if somebody who actually knows about this could post here. As for me, I only get to se the "Thank You fo Playing" message in every single tourney a play, rebuy or not.

      /Johan = :f_confused:
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,086
      I have a theory :rolleyes:

      I think that "correct" strategy (ev- maximizing) in rebuys is in principle no different from correct strategy in a regular tourney. The problem is that your opponents will not play correctly (as in regular tourneys), not by far. Thus you have to adjust accordingly. This pretty much means that you must play a little looser. Your opponents (the better ones) know of this and take your moves a bit more lightly. You know that they know. Etcetera. The ball is rolling.

      It's like a gigantic Nash equilibrium being badly broken, even if no bad players are in from the start. It becomes clearly correct to deviate considerably from some (perhaps nonexistent) unbeatable/unexploitable tournament strategy because we can exploit better playing differently.

      A priori, there was no reason to play differently, not for anyone. But that delicate balance becomes broken if people were to deviate. It doesn't take anyone to actually deviate before people adjust to the deviation.

      Some sort of mass leveling war make rebuys substantially different from regular tourneys.

      Put it differently: If you knew for sure that the players at your table would not play differenly from a regular tourney, then, as far as I can see, there would not be a single reason in the world for you to play any situation differently from a regular tourney. [Why donate chips? You can't repair a big stack all that easily by just rebuying and getting a starting stack because your opponents will not donate back. People won't gamble.]

      In reality, the opposite is true. You know almost for sure, that your opponents will play differently from an ordinary tourney, even before the first hand is played. You must adjust accordingly. [People will gamble. You can rebuy and expect to play a big pot soon again with decent chances without having the absolute nuts.]

      What the proper adjustments are, I'd like to know. It still takes an idiot in my book to call a big reshove preflop with 66 - even if you can rebuy. Perhaps there are no generally applicable advice at all - except that people are looser with close to 100% certainty.

      Wether to make light calls, gigantic all-ins with monsters, or slowplaing mosters, or value betting thinner, or whatever is perhaps entirely opponent dependent. It's up to me to read the table. In that respect poker does not change one bit. Thanks goodness for that.

      /Johan = :f_confused:
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,242
      Hi ragney and thank you for posting in the mtt strategy forums!

      Thanks to Yohan as well for his thoughts on rebuy's.

      I'd like to add my point of view - hopefully it helps =)


      Duration, does rebuy tournies takes long to finish?

      They take a bit longer then normal tournaments - but most of the times it's not by far.


      Players, rebuy tournies = more fish?

      I don't think so - fishes are everywhere :)


      Playstyle, do we need to play tighter compared to normal MTT's or?

      You can play your normal style. Especially after rebuyperiod ended. During the rebuy period it makes sense to play looser. You have to try to build up a nice stack as long as you don't have to risk your tournament life. Therefore it makes perfect sense to gamble a bit more and get it in in marginal spots that you would normally avoid. Since your opponents will do the same you may play even looser if you can take the variance.
      There are different approaches of playing rebuy tournaments of course. You have to find your own style for the rebuy period in the end.

      If you have further questions feel free to ask!

      Regards,
      Asaban