Collusion at Cash point and sng High gear

    • Monttu
      Monttu
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2011 Posts: 7
      Just posting this after notifying WH because I feel this concerns many players here.
      Cash point is a promotion where players are awarded points when three or more players see the flop.
      The more players the more leaderboard points for the winner of the hand. The maximum number of hands is fixed per
      day so collusion gives a huge edge. Sit N go High gear works just like battle of the planets awarding points from
      sngs by finishing position. The block includes 15 sngs. The cash point promotion runs in june while the sng
      promotion had three cycles in may. The cash point leaderboard payments have not been made but the sng high gear
      payments are.

      There is an obvious collusion ring at the cash point promotion. Same four guys playing
      nl200 at the same table for four days in a row. Exactly the same guys. The interesting
      part is that also three out of these four have been also playing for the low and microstakes leaderboards.
      And on these tables there has ALWAYS been exactly the same six players both on nl20 and nl4.
      They are a bit more deceptive on the nl200 tables but on nl20 and nl4 the play goes like this.
      Everybody limps to see the flop and then the one they want to get the points pots the flop and
      everyone folds. Except every now and then the players fold and one pots pf and everybody folds.

      PYZ1990
      Tonydon71
      Terminator71
      KillerYJ
      yyrly01
      xhlppdd
      lzmllmm

      Just ptr these guys, watch how they all play only at the same tables with the same configuration of players.. and just to
      be sure fire up one of their nl4 or nl20 sessions to get confirmation.


      Here comes the worrying part. After discovering the collusion ring I looked at the sng leaderboards for the last cycle in may.
      I could find these same players getting prizes. I dont have a sharkscope sub but I scoped two of these players. Their graphs
      were straight up and straight down. Also with the 5 free searches I scoped two tournaments they played in may and in both tournaments
      all six players were from that list. If somebody has a ss sub they could confirm this.
      The payments for these sng leaderboards have already been made so there are players who lost money because of this.
      For example at the last cycle the top3 at the medium stakes leaderboard where from this ring. So the fourth
      player who netted $220 should have gotten the top prize of $450.

      If Im not allowed to post screennames mods please delete them and Ill find another way of proving this.


      Monttu
  • 13 replies
    • ZeroDegrees
      ZeroDegrees
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2008 Posts: 743
      Thanks for telling Monttu. I suspected that things like this would turn up. The whole point system in that promotion practically shouts an invitation to this. How could they NOT have foreseen this? Strange.
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,184
      I'm not convinced that they would care if there is collusion. They obviously don't care about robots playing at the lower FL stakes even if they aren't officially allowed. That's perhaps more of an iPoker network problem than a WH problem to be fair. Both robots and collusion in any form is cheating of course.

      You post evidence that is good enough for me. The evidence of existing robots is even better because of millions of played hands. (I don't want to recap about bots here.)

      But, if so happens, the rake keeps coming for the house. Thus, it's a no win situation for WH, or any other smallish site for that matter, to either acknowledge or dismiss claims about ongoing cheating. It doesn't attract new depositors and traffic might drop instantly.

      Still, maybe the promotion collusion is easier for WH to deal with than robots because they may be able to simply freeze (permanently of course, without actually investigating anyting) the listed players accounts and even look good in the process - without losing considerable table action.

      I wouldn't think that the colluders are bots because it wouldn't be worth the programming effort for a fistfull of dollars. Thus they aren't as good rake generators as the bots so WH might just swat these guys.

      Keep us informed.

      /Johan = :f_confused:
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Silver
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,944
      Hi Monttu,

      Have you escalated this to William Hill?

      Please be kind to update us of any developments.


      Regards,
      Gary
    • Monttu
      Monttu
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2011 Posts: 7
      Yes I did notify William Hill. There is also a thread in the german forums but my german is a bit rusty so I cant get much out of it. Only that the german diamond notified William Hill yesterday morning and the players were still playing few hours after the notification. WH support said they will contact me after the investigation so Ill post the reply as soon as I get one.


      Monttu
    • Monttu
      Monttu
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2011 Posts: 7
      The first four players playing nl200 have had their accounts frozen. No word from the other three or about the sng promotion.

      "I am writing in relation to your reported collusion between the following customers:

      • PYZ1990
      • TonyDon71
      • Terminator71
      • KillerYJ

      Following an intensive investigation by our Poker Specialist, we have found evidence of collusion that breaks the terms and conditions of the promotion and as a result all accounts has been disqualified from the Promotion(s) and had their accounts frozen."


      Monttu
    • iConflagrate
      iConflagrate
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 58
      I did report them yesterday, and had received same response today, they got disqualified and their/his/hers accounts got frozen. There is some justice !
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Silver
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,944
      Good news.

      Well done for spotting them :)
    • Ferklsepp307
      Ferklsepp307
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.02.2007 Posts: 5,468
      they are deleted :]


      http://www.mansionpoker.com/feeds-cash-point-low.html
      http://www.mansionpoker.com/feeds-cash-point-micro.html
      http://www.mansionpoker.com/feeds-cash-point-midhigh.html
    • TFMonty
      TFMonty
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.04.2008 Posts: 126
      Originally posted by HollyMichelle
      Hi Monttu,

      Have you escalated this to William Hill?

      Please be kind to update us of any developments.


      Regards,
      Gary
      lol @iPoker doing anything at all about this. Over the years I have reported various collusion/disconnect abuses etc and they do nothing. This will be no different.
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Silver
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,944
      Originally posted by TFMonty
      Originally posted by HollyMichelle
      Hi Monttu,

      Have you escalated this to William Hill?

      Please be kind to update us of any developments.


      Regards,
      Gary
      lol @iPoker doing anything at all about this. Over the years I have reported various collusion/disconnect abuses etc and they do nothing. This will be no different.
      Hi there TFMonty,

      While this maybe true, it seems as if the players in this instance have been removed as seen a few posts above.


      Kind regards,
      Gary
    • Ferklsepp307
      Ferklsepp307
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.02.2007 Posts: 5,468
      Hi,

      there are new collusion at the Cash-Point Promo:

      http://de.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?postid=11534549#post11534549

      Regards
      Sepp
    • ZeroDegrees
      ZeroDegrees
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2008 Posts: 743
      Just wondering about those who aren't stupid enough to use almost identical names
    • iConflagrate
      iConflagrate
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2011 Posts: 58
      I believe the person behind collusion in first week of Cash Point promotion is trying to do this again, just a little under the table.

      PTR and report these to your respectable ipoker support please:

      Killer696969
      djodi22
      Kambo28


      This is really annoying.