Tryin to learn the art of PLO

    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      Hi!
      I'm Christofer from sweden (so please excuse me for my english). This is going to be my little dairy of my experince in PLO.
      I've been playing poker for about 2 years now. I'm playing at pokerstars. My bankroll (which is built out of freerolls) have been laying at the same level all the time, about 80 dollars. I've been having a tough time trying to develop my skills without any progress.
      The worst has happened the last few days. I tried some mtt's and succeeded to ruin my BR. It's now at 43$.

      I'm playing at PLO2 SH. I think it's kind of an easy level to beat, altough i've never succeeded. The thing is that i go all in to often and in the wrong situations. I'll have to stop with this if im going to be a winning player.

      I've played 3k hands this month on PLO2 without any special results. I'm right now +-0, although my ev-line is on +10$ (which means +5BI).

      I believe i can get back on track using this blog as a help on the way.
      I'm going to set up some short time goals for this summer. They will be set low for easy achieving.

      :spade: Goals :spade:

      *Playing 10k hands until the end of june
      *Post 10 hands for evaluation
      *Avoid every kind of game that isn't PLO SH cashgame


      See you soon PS :)
  • 52 replies
    • fruktpuff
      fruktpuff
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 3,982
      Hi Chriffan,

      Welcome to our blogging section!

      Where in Sweden are you from? What have you played before PLO SH?

      I personally love PLO, but I have a hard time dealing with the natural variance involved in the game, which often leads to me going back to NLHE to rebuild, both bankroll and confidence.

      Will be looking forward to see how you progress through the stakes though! Following for sure, it'll be awesome!

      Regards,
      Richard
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,912
      One tool to improve your game is PLO study group. You can find the information in omaha sttategy section.
    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      Nice to see such welcoming!
      I'd like to keep my hometown a secret but somewhere around vättern close to the nature.

      I started out playing hold'em fixed limit. It involved much mathematic and pretty little gambling which suited me perfectly. I'm kind of the guy who scores the highest grade on math and psysics tests without any difficulties.
      As I said before my BR was completely built out of freerolls. When I was about 15 years old i started my pokerstars account. I succeeded to gamble away all the money i somehow got there.
      Two years later i got interested in poker again. I brought up my FLHE career again. This time I won a freeroll which was hosted by Aftonbladet (a swedish newspaper). I guess I won about 10 dollars or something like that.

      The money soon began to raise when i found pokerstrategy.
      I read a lot of articles about it and managed to get to the 0.2 dollar BB level i think. At this point my BR laid around 50 dollars.

      I've since then tried a lot of different pokergames such as 5 card draw, omaha hi/lo, sng's and mtt's. Although i never really tried NLHE.


      I got a peak in my BR for about 3 months ago. I went up to 110 dollars playing Plo2 SH before i crashed down to my current BR.
      That's about my history of poker.




      Today i've played a shorter session with a little bit +
      Br is now at 47$
    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      UTG was 30vpip, 11pfr with agg on about 1.5
      Not really sure about any potsizes.
      Not sure either if it was right to bet turn.
      Any thoughts?


      PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      Hero (BB): $3.62
      UTG: $4.13
      MP: $2.40
      CO: $1.66
      BTN: $1.57
      SB: $2.00

      SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02, MP posts DB $0.02

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.05) Hero has 6:club: Q:spade: K:club: J:diamond:

      UTG calls $0.02, MP checks, fold, BTN calls $0.02, fold, Hero checks

      Flop: ($0.09, 4 players) A:spade: K:heart: T:diamond:
      Hero bets $0.09, UTG calls $0.09, fold, fold

      Turn: ($0.27, 2 players) A:club:
      Hero bets $0.13, UTG calls $0.13

      River: ($0.53, 2 players) K:diamond:
      Hero checks, UTG bets $0.34, fold
    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      Graph over my hands this month. Running about 5 BI under EV which is kind of frustrating when my BR isn't bigger.

    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      Haven't written a lot in this little diary yet but I got to say it has really made me think more about my play.
      I have begun to think about every move i make at the tables to maximize my profit. Before I just tried to get as much volume as possible. I can tell you I'm more of a winning player than before :]

      I have also hang out a lot more at the hand review section of omaha in this forum. It's a great place to learn a little more specific things than the articles teaches you.

      My BR is also delighted by the winnings at the tables.
      It's now up to 54$
    • fruktpuff
      fruktpuff
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 3,982
      I'm so pleased to hear you feel your blog is already helping you, and hope to see you back more and more, having to actually put your thoughts into words when posting can have a really rather positive effect.

      Ribbo's awesome, I used to love hanging out in the Omaha HE section when I had time for it!

      Keep updating and keep progressing! Already looking forward to the next post.

      Regards,
      Richard
    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      Kind of interesting hand.
      Preflop nothing special at all.
      On the flop I got to raise full pot size, to protect my hand. It was my first hand also so I didn't have any stats or notes to rely on either.
      Turn is standard bet to, as I said before, protect.

      River though is messing up the board. I got to decide if he's sitting on a flush draw of trips. I decide to bet half pot size because I would normaly guess he's got the flush draw and maybe I could get a call then. Unfortunately he raises me with minimum. Before the diary I got to say that
      I would had called there. But since the bet doesn't make sense as a bluff (then he would had raise me much more) he got to have made a full house.


      Any thoughts about my moves?

      PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      CO: $1.77
      BTN: $0.95
      SB: $2.34
      Hero (BB): $2.00
      UTG: $4.85
      MP: $1.21

      SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 2:club: 7:spade: 9:heart: T:club:

      UTG calls $0.02, MP calls $0.02, fold, fold, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks

      Flop: ($0.08, 4 players) 6:diamond: 9:diamond: 8:club:
      SB bets $0.02, Hero raises to $0.14, UTG calls $0.14, fold, fold

      Turn: ($0.38, 2 players) K:spade:
      Hero bets $0.37, UTG calls $0.37

      River: ($1.12, 2 players) K:club:
      Hero bets $0.54, UTG raises to $1.08, fold
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,912
      In that hand is the next step for you to improve yourself to the next level. Instead of thinking "me", you should think "villain". When you bet the river, what worse hand will call your bet? And on the other side what better hand might fold? Yes, you have the straight but that bet is pretty much useless. If it is a valuebet, opponent has to be pretty bad to call you with worse hand. Unless he has backdoor trips or you have some aggro dynamics. Most of the time he has a busted draw or a fullhouse. Now if you bet, you will lose that bet against fullhouses, but win nothing from busted draws. If you check-call, you will still lose that money against fullhouses but win some if you opponent bluffs with a missed draw.

      So you should start thinking about what opponent might have, and how to maximum value against that range.
    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it!

      Yeah, I guess thinking "me" and not "villain" is a common beginners mistake. I believe I haven't realized the kind of draw game omaha is. That a strong draw might be better then the nuts at the flop.

      I'm using pokertracker 4 as software to improve my game. It has helped me a lot so far and I bet it won't be to less help in the future. It has got a thing tats called "leaktracker" and I'm a little bit confused about that.
      My values for "Fold to F/T/R bet" are all too high. They are about 60 when pokertracker recommends about 20.

      Do I really fold so much?! Would my game improve if I called down much more?
      This is over 9k hands btw.



      And so about today's poker. I've ran over ev for the first time in a long time. It feels great even though I haven't earned a lot. I might throw up a hand for review tonight if I have the time.
      Br is now 57$
    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174


      Above is todays graph so far. I've started to play on the screen for the stationary computer with 19 inch screen instead of my 11 inch screen which i've played on so far. This allows me to 6-table instead of playing on 4 tables as before. So from now on I belive I will get much greater volume with more earnings :f_biggrin:

      I have also won a satellite for some kind of NLHE tournament which I payed for with FPPs. Another 5$ for my BR.
      Besides I've had a kind of bumpy ride in PLO world today. It began great when my BR went up to 65$. It went great for me. Nothing special to say. Cards didn't really go my way but so did the opponents.
      I finished the session with +2 BI. Then when I sat down tonight I quickly lost the 2 BIs. Villain 3bet, I nail 2 pairs on flop, he got the nut straight and so on. Nothing I felt I could play better at least. t also feels gret that I'm running under EV-line beacuse then I atleast know my game is better then it shows. However, maybe I didn't play my A-game but atleast I played my B-game....

      And about my goals for June... I've posted some hands for Ribbo to evaluate and are on my way to reach that goal. I've also played 5k hands so far in June. Maybe I'll throw up a graph on that in a day or two.

      So in the middle of this session I've succeeded to win some back after I saved the graph and BR is now 63$
    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      No reads.


      PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      CO: $1.13
      Hero (BTN): $1.41
      SB: $0.79
      BB: $2.06
      UTG: $3.77
      MP: $0.93

      SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A:diamond: K:club: K:heart: 3:spade:

      fold, MP calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.11, fold, BB calls $0.09, MP calls $0.09, CO calls $0.09

      Flop: ($0.45, 4 players) 4:spade: 9:heart: K:diamond:
      BB checks, MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets $0.26, BB calls $0.26, fold, fold

      Turn: ($0.97, 2 players) J:club:
      BB bets $0.02, Hero raises to $1.00, BB raises to $1.69 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.04 and is all-in

      River: ($3.05, 2 players) Q:heart:

      BB shows Q:club: T:club: 5:diamond: A:heart: (Straight, Ace High) (Pre 38%, Flop 16%, Turn 75%) Hero shows A:diamond: K:club: K:heart: 3:spade: (Three of a Kind, Kings) (Pre 62%, Flop 84%, Turn 25%) BB wins $2.94




      No reads here either.

      PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      Hero (BTN): $2.08
      SB: $1.12
      BB: $1.89
      UTG: $1.24
      MP: $1.90
      CO: $2.79

      SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A:club: 5:club: 3:spade: 4:diamond:

      fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.07, SB raises to $0.23, fold, Hero calls $0.16

      Flop: ($0.48, 2 players) 7:spade: 5:diamond: 6:spade:
      SB bets $0.24, Hero raises to $1.18, SB calls $0.65 and is all-in

      Turn: ($2.26, 2 players) T:diamond:

      River: ($2.26, 2 players) 2:heart:

      SB shows 9:heart: Q:heart: A:spade: 8:club: (Straight, Ten High) (Pre 64%, Flop 97%, Turn 100%) Hero shows A:club: 5:club: 3:spade: 4:diamond: (Straight, Seven High) (Pre 36%, Flop 3%, Turn 0%) SB wins $2.18
    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      Omaha is killing me once again. Thought I would survive the psychological part of omaha this time but no.
      Down from 67$ to 57$.

      And the worst part. I don't even play that bad compared to my opponents :s_cry:
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,912
      You lost 5 buyins. That is every day stuff in PLO. And every now and then you WILL lose 10 buyins in a session. And of course, sometimes you will win the same amount. That is the hardest part in learning omaha. It feels very good when you win stack after stack, but it feels terrible when you lose stack after stack, even if you get your money in as a favorite all the time. But you can't really control that, all you can control is your own actions. Focus on making good decisions, one by one. The rest will follow.
    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      Originally posted by Kyyberi
      You lost 5 buyins. That is every day stuff in PLO. And every now and then you WILL lose 10 buyins in a session. And of course, sometimes you will win the same amount. That is the hardest part in learning omaha. It feels very good when you win stack after stack, but it feels terrible when you lose stack after stack, even if you get your money in as a favorite all the time. But you can't really control that, all you can control is your own actions. Focus on making good decisions, one by one. The rest will follow.
      Thanks for the advices! :)
      That's is the worst part of omaha for sure. I'd go back to hold'em and Omaha hi/lo, just for the less variance, if they were as fun as omaha but they ain't. Maybe it's the charm also about Omaha. Losing great parts of your BR the first day, then win it all back plus some more the next day. I guess that's kind of the thrill about Omaha.

      You may be thinking "Here comes the end for that poteramateur". Of course it isn't so. I just had to write down my anger to avoid tilting. That's what is killing most Omaha players I belive, the tilting caused by the variance, not the variance itself.

      In my case, the hard part losing BIs is that I don't have the bankroll I'd like to have. I've realized that I need about 50 BIs (rather more than less) in Omaha to feel safe plying Omaha. Now my BR is at 27 BIs which makes me unconfident.

      Hopefully the BR will grow so I soon can fell secure at the lowest Omaha-stake :rolleyes:
    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      Well, another day of the omaha effect. Although this time, it ws the right effect!
      Today I succeeded to win the BIs I cried about yesterday. I felt very releved (not sure about the word.. :f_biggrin: ) seeing my BR grow a bit more.
      Nailed to really nice hands in the beginning of my session which gave me a lot of confidence.



      Corr1 is a total maniac, always betting full pot size on river and often calls. Kind of a horrible mixture of maniac and calling station.

      First I hesitated on calling preflop, I'd normally fold to the raise but since I was pretty sure that the guy behind me would call as well so called I.
      On flop I made a bad move. I should had folded but something made me call, probably the knowing that I could actually win with a pair of aces or kings against this guy. Unfortunately the 3rd guy called which made me insecure about how I would proceed.

      Turn is standard check. Lucky me both checks behind.

      River is tricky. I don't want to bet since I probably just will get a call from Corr1. I check and hope that Corr1 will bet (as usual) or the 3rd guy. Corr1 bets, I snap raise him and get a call from the 3rd guy.


      PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      CO: $2.00
      BTN: $8.12
      SB: $2.00
      Hero (BB): $1.77
      UTG: $2.12

      SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02, CO posts DB $0.03

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has 6:club: 3:heart: A:heart: K:spade:

      fold, CO checks, BTN raises to $0.08, fold, Hero calls $0.06, CO calls $0.06

      Flop: ($0.26, 3 players) 2:heart: T:spade: 9:club:
      Hero checks, CO checks, BTN bets $0.08, Hero calls $0.08, CO calls $0.08

      Turn: ($0.50, 3 players) 4:heart:
      Hero checks, CO checks, BTN checks

      River: ($0.50, 3 players) J:heart:
      Hero checks, CO checks, BTN bets $0.48, Hero raises to $1.61 and is all-in, CO calls $1.61, fold

      Hero shows 6:club: 3:heart: A:heart: K:spade: (Flush, Ace High) (Pre 45%, Flop 28%, Turn 40%) CO shows 8:spade: 8:club: A:spade: Q:diamond: (Straight, Queen High) (Pre 55%, Flop 72%, Turn 60%) Hero wins $4.05



      2nd hand is also at the same table against Corr1.
      Nothing really to discuss here. I use him as a calling station on flop and he decides (lucky me) to be a maniac on turn.

      PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: $7.46
      UTG: $2.00
      CO: $2.40
      Hero (BTN): $4.03
      SB: $2.36

      SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02, CO posts DB $0.03

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has 9:spade: 7:spade: A:diamond: A:heart:

      fold, CO checks, Hero raises to $0.10, fold, BB calls $0.08, fold

      Flop: ($0.24, 2 players) 2:club: A:club: 9:diamond:
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.23, BB calls $0.23

      Turn: ($0.70, 2 players) 8:diamond:
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.68, BB raises to $2.72, Hero raises to $3.70 and is all-in, BB calls $0.98

      River: ($8.10, 2 players) K:club:

      BB shows A:spade: 6:heart: 8:spade: 4:diamond: (Two Pair, Aces and Eights) (Pre 33%, Flop 5%, Turn 0%) Hero shows 9:spade: 7:spade: A:diamond: A:heart: (Three of a Kind, Aces) (Pre 67%, Flop 95%, Turn 100%) Hero wins $7.82


      Finally comes a graph over tonights session.
    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      BR at 70$ #runninggood #lovepoker
    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      To sum up todays poker. Run good, run bad, quit almost break even.

      It started out great today. Had some really nice hands and felt that I played my A-game all the time. Also succeeded with some great reads on the opponents which helped me a lot. Got the BR up to 75$ when I finished that session.

      Now I sat down and started playing again. Lost 2 BIs on ordinairy variance. Even though I belive I played my A-game the poker gods didn't allow me to win this session.

      Tonights BR is at 70$ . Even though it ain't more than at the last update (which I think was two days ago??) I broke a new ATH record which always feels great! :]
      Hopefully this is because of my play and not because of omaha....


      Throwing in a hand also.
      I think I didn't have any reads.
      Curious about the turn. Should I bet? When I get the 1:3 odds of calling I have to call don't I? I mean, I've got 13 outs and he probably will pay me off.

      PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: $1.43
      UTG: $1.74
      CO: $2.43
      Hero (BTN): $1.97
      SB: $2.42

      SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 7:spade: 6:diamond: A:heart: K:diamond:

      fold, CO calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.09, fold, fold, CO calls $0.07

      Flop: ($0.21, 2 players) A:diamond: 9:heart: J:diamond:
      CO checks, Hero bets $0.10, CO calls $0.10

      Turn: ($0.41, 2 players) K:spade:
      CO checks, Hero bets $0.20, CO raises to $0.60, Hero calls $0.40

      River: ($1.61, 2 players) 4:heart:
      CO bets $1.55, fold
    • Chriffan
      Chriffan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2011 Posts: 174
      Beginner misstake.

      PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 4 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      UTG: $0.60
      BTN: $1.44
      SB: $4.81
      Hero (BB): $2.14

      SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 8:club: K:spade: 9:spade: 5:diamond:

      fold, fold, SB raises to $0.04, Hero calls $0.02

      Flop: ($0.08, 2 players) 8:heart: 8:diamond: 2:heart:
      SB bets $0.02, Hero raises to $0.06, SB calls $0.04

      Turn: ($0.20, 2 players) 9:heart:
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.09, SB calls $0.09

      River: ($0.38, 2 players) T:club:
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.18, SB raises to $0.36, Hero raises to $0.90, SB raises to $1.44, Hero raises to $1.95 and is all-in, SB calls $0.51

      Hero shows 8:club: K:spade: 9:spade: 5:diamond: (Full House, Eights full of Nines) (Pre 39%, Flop 90%, Turn 95%)
      SB shows T:spade: T:heart: 7:spade: J:spade: (Full House, Tens full of Eights) (Pre 61%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)
      SB wins $4.13