[NL2-NL10] Ako - Killing me!

    • Rapier12
      Rapier12
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.06.2012 Posts: 14
      Help! AKo is killing me! By farmy biggest leak, posted the last hand - could I have got away, done anything different please.


      iPoker - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 7 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.com

      UTG+1: $5.00
      MP: $0.94
      CO: $1.00
      BTN: $1.80
      Hero (SB): $4.20
      BB: $2.40
      UTG: $5.59

      Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

      Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has Ac Ks

      fold, fold, MP calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, fold, Hero raises to $0.12, BB calls $0.10, MP calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.48, 4 players) 8s Ad 3h
      Hero bets $0.36, BB calls $0.36, MP calls $0.36, fold

      Turn: ($1.56, 3 players) 7h
      Hero bets $1.17, BB raises to $1.92, MP calls $0.46, Hero calls $0.75

      River: ($5.86, 3 players) Jh

      MP shows Td Kh (High Card, Ace) (Pre 24%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
      Hero mucks Ac Ks (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 35%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
      BB shows 3s 3c (Three of a Kind, Threes) (Pre 41%, Flop 97%, Turn 100%)
      BB wins $5.47
  • 8 replies
    • RazDirk
      RazDirk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.02.2011 Posts: 237
      Well 4 players to the flop & you C-bet into 4 players with Ace & dry board.
      Get called in 2 spots.. So the dry board can't carry any draws and yes one of them could have a weak Ax hand that could pay you off but 2 players called your flop bet and its likely you're beat here. You only have TPTK, so unfortunately it should be a check\fold on the turn :(

      edit - Unless you have fishy stats on both the players, then imo you could go broke here I guess.

      Its okay if you get bluffed, just let it go :p Thats what I tell myself :f_biggrin:
    • Rapier12
      Rapier12
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.06.2012 Posts: 14
      Thanks for the reply.

      No fishy stats on them I'm afraid.

      You pointed out a couple of things I didn't consider. Certainly I did not like 3 other's calling my preflop raise but I know I didn't consider the 3 preflop caller's when C-Betting or the fact it was a dry board. The two caller's should have given the game away! (seems so obvious when you review whats going on!)

      What have I learn't? Pay attention to other players, board texture and bets - pratically tells the story!

      Would you have C-Bet in this spot?

      Thanks

      Raps
    • Meda1985
      Meda1985
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2011 Posts: 233
      Originally posted by Rapier12

      Flop: ($0.48, 4 players) 8s Ad 3h
      Hero bets $0.36, BB calls $0.36, MP calls $0.36, fold

      Turn: ($1.56, 3 players) 7h
      Hero bets $1.17, BB raises to $1.92, MP calls $0.46, Hero calls $0.75

      River: ($5.86, 3 players) Jh

      MP shows Td Kh (High Card, Ace) (Pre 24%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
      Hero mucks Ac Ks (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 35%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
      BB shows 3s 3c (Three of a Kind, Threes) (Pre 41%, Flop 97%, Turn 100%)
      BB wins $5.47
      MP LOL! :)
    • Meda1985
      Meda1985
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2011 Posts: 233
      Pre-flop raise is a little big, because of that and 3/4 cbetting instead of 2/3 you was pot-commited! If you raised just 10 and cbetted 28 you could cbet even on turn and fold because not more then half of your stack would be in the pot and even if that fold isn't all that great in the micros, you would have room to do so... But, cbet is not a great idea on that turn...
      My 2 cents! I'm no pro by no means, but I play a lot of micros and I have overinflated pots by donks and I don't like that with TPTK! For example some donk raises from EP 6BB, two of them call, I'm with AA I reraise to 5 of his initial, that's 30BB, EP donk calls and that's almost already pot-commited because he has only 70BB in his stack! Flop is 258o I go allin he calls me with 55! Got me?
    • awesomeo
      awesomeo
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2009 Posts: 303
      Just keep in mind that in the micro stakes it is not your goal to loose less when you are beat but to max the value you are getting for your strong hands. And MPs play shows you why... Also if BB is a fish is he folding his AQ, AJ, AT etc pre? No, he pays you off. That is why you play AK agro anyway. So the question you need to answer here is does BB have weaker hand here or not. And if the answer is yes go for it. In this case it looks like a set but before the raise it could still be weaker ace and after that you are commited.

      As for the example bellow the poster made the right play with AA and his opponent played terribly his 55 and will be a big looser longrun. So he does not need to make adjustments like raising smaller preflop or whatever. The reason is the same - if the donk is calling 55 here he is calling also 66,77,99,TT etc and chances are he is never folding any of those which is a huge profit for the aces.

      So my point here is don't think you made wrong play just because you lost a hand but think if villain would do the same thing with enough hands that you beat. And if yes this = big profit for you longrun...
    • Meda1985
      Meda1985
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2011 Posts: 233
      Originally posted by awesomeo

      As for the example bellow the poster made the right play with AA and his opponent played terribly his 55 and will be a big looser longrun. So he does not need to make adjustments like raising smaller preflop or whatever. The reason is the same - if the donk is calling 55 here he is calling also 66,77,99,TT etc and chances are he is never folding any of those which is a huge profit for the aces.

      So my point here is don't think you made wrong play just because you lost a hand but think if villain would do the same thing with enough hands that you beat. And if yes this = big profit for you longrun...
      Ofcourse! I was just saying that if it was significantly smaller pot as it was supposed to be a fold could happen much easier! If they both are regulars and have about 150BB and in this case I have elaborated pot is about 20-30BB it's no big deal to fold to a re-raise if he is as I said a normal player and you can be quite sure that he doesn't have some dumb overpair like 99 or TT...
    • inlovewithamsterdam
      inlovewithamsterdam
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2009 Posts: 666
      Originally posted by Rapier12
      Help! AKo is killing me! By farmy biggest leak, posted the last hand - could I have got away, done anything different please.


      iPoker - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 7 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.com

      UTG+1: $5.00
      MP: $0.94
      CO: $1.00
      BTN: $1.80
      Hero (SB): $4.20
      BB: $2.40
      UTG: $5.59

      Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

      Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has Ac Ks

      fold, fold, MP calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, fold, Hero raises to $0.12, BB calls $0.10, MP calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.48, 4 players) 8s Ad 3h
      Hero bets $0.36, BB calls $0.36, MP calls $0.36, fold

      Turn: ($1.56, 3 players) 7h
      Hero bets $1.17, BB raises to $1.92, MP calls $0.46, Hero calls $0.75

      River: ($5.86, 3 players) Jh

      MP shows Td Kh (High Card, Ace) (Pre 24%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
      Hero mucks Ac Ks (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 35%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
      BB shows 3s 3c (Three of a Kind, Threes) (Pre 41%, Flop 97%, Turn 100%)
      BB wins $5.47
      If BB is a solid/tightish/not clueless player, I'd bet/fold turn (by betting we get value from 8s, random heart draws, weaker aces; if we get raised we're most likely beat however).

      I don't agree with what others said about raising smaller preflop.
      I always raise big pre with big hands, because fish will always play dominated holdings - which means we will both flop e.g. a TP or turn a flush and they will stack off with what - majority of the time - will be a weaker hand. Also as a general principle we want to play big pots with strong holdings.

      Also always try to look at your opponents stacks and adjust your bets accordingly. If you looked at BB's stack on the flop, maybe you could cbet a bit smaller and bet turn a bit smaller as well, just to give yourself space to bet/fold if BB raises (i.e. to allow yourself to make a small enough bet that you'd be able to easily release).

      So I'd raise the same pre, on the flop I'd bet ~.30, and then on the turn the pot would be $1.38 - I'd bet .74-78 and fold if BB shoves his remaining $2. I'm of course going broke vs. MP (his stack is not full, therefore he's likely to be a fish + we're committed vs. the little money he's got).

      That's just how I would play the hand, I might me completely wrong (e.g. I also thought about betting very small on the turn and then shoving river - on an assumption that if BB doesn't raise our turn bet he's weaker most of the time. But that seems less appealing)

      Hope that helps.
      Matt

      EDIT: Also it is my opinion that check/folding Turn is super weak and not the right play
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Rapier12,

      I have moved your hand into hand evaluation forum.

      Welcome to the English NL Hand Evaluation Forum! Hopefully we will see more hands from you in the future. I hope that with our help you can improve your play and as well move up the limits. We will be waiting for the next hands and till that good luck on tables!

      The thing you could do here is to Bet a bit smaller on the turn even maybe 1/2 pot size cause if you get raised in those spots you are very often behind, they have to be super-loose to imagine them having a lot worse Ax hands.

      Best Regards.