[SH] Flatting ranges vs UTG standard open

    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Hello all my fellow strategists,

      I'm playing with my preflop ranges and want to get your opinion on my first go at flatting ranges vs an UTG normal open range of about 16%. Table is unknown, I know our ranges are going to vary vastly depending on table dynamics, but I also think having a standard point from which to deviate in either direction is equally important.

      So, here are my ranges:

      o MP: JJ-99, AQs-AJs, KQs, QJs, AKo
      o CO: JJ-77, AQs-ATs, KQs, QJs, JTs, AQo+
      o BTN: JJ-22, AQs-ATs, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, AQo+
      o SB: JJJ-TT, AQs-AJs, KQs, QJs, AKo
      o BB: JJ-88, AQs-AJs, KQs, QJs, AKo

      Looking forward to your feedback :) .
  • 9 replies
    • Lefty85
      Lefty85
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 162
      I don't like flatting UTG openings with hands that are dominated by an UTG range, especially vs regs.

      I would add QQ-AA to your range or you will have a very weak range and will be vulnerable to squeezes.
    • inlovewithamsterdam
      inlovewithamsterdam
      Silver
      Joined: 08.07.2009 Posts: 666
      +1 on the dominated range

      This might not be a contribution you wanted, but I play 6max and I'm also working on my ranges... anyway I think the exchange my questions could initiate might be EV+.

      I'm interested in how you play your pockets. I can see that you don't play 88- OOP; why is that? I've played all pockets OOP vs. UTG ranges (I try to play them more vs. tight players, where I can be sure that they will have stronger holdings when I hit; sometimes I bluff 3b pre with them but that's most often vs. CO, BTN opens), and I have to say I've had a favourable result (25k sample) with that play.

      Do you setmine OOP if you're getting the 1:20 odds? With high cbet, low turn aggression players you could get a chance to bluff with them UI, either with a c/r on flop or a float. Plus like I said imo they're good because you get to stack the players when you hit and it seems a profitable way to go.

      Or do you rather prefer to use them primarily in bluff spots pre?
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      This is something I've been thinking about recently... Interesting to see other player's base ranges.

      With regard yours don't like flatting QJ, AJ, KJ vrs utg because finding myself in a lot of dominated situations (-or maybe i'm just not playing them properly). How do you play your pp's <88?

      @Lefty do you have a 3b range v utg? Just wondering since your flatting QQ-AA
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      I'm only flatting the suited ones. I'm still working on them, thought I might get some valuable feedback here :) .

      @inlovewithamsterdam: your sample is close to nothing regarding these spots, at 500 k you'll an idea after some millions you can say for sure if your strategy is profitable, but that doesn't mean that it is the most profitable or that your game did not evolve in the mean time.
    • Lefty85
      Lefty85
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 162
      I rarely 3-bet tight UTG openers. Not always flatting my monsters though sometimes I 3-bet some suited broadways or small PP.

      If i play 22-77 IP i always c/fold when i miss the flop, but I only play them against strong ranges, bad players and multiway.

      I have a negative result over +1M hands of flatting 22-77 in the blinds vs a single raiser. Lately just folding them. Raiser + callers has a positive result.
    • inlovewithamsterdam
      inlovewithamsterdam
      Silver
      Joined: 08.07.2009 Posts: 666
      Originally posted by Lefty85
      I rarely 3-bet tight UTG openers. Not always flatting my monsters though sometimes I 3-bet some suited broadways or small PP.

      If i play 22-77 IP i always c/fold when i miss the flop, but I only play them against strong ranges, bad players and multiway.

      I have a negative result over +1M hands of flatting 22-77 in the blinds vs a single raiser. Lately just folding them. Raiser + callers has a positive result.
      That's interesting! Yeah when we flat OOP we will find ourselves w/o initiative and often end up c/f flops. I can see why this is a -EV play.

      Is the OP going to explain why he doesn't flat all pockets IP vs. strong ranges when he gets 1:20?

      It would make for an interesting discussion!
    • Lefty85
      Lefty85
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 162
      Obiously because there still players behind you that can squeeze you out of your hand or which you have no position on postflop.
    • inlovewithamsterdam
      inlovewithamsterdam
      Silver
      Joined: 08.07.2009 Posts: 666
      Originally posted by Lefty85
      Obiously because there still players behind you that can squeeze you out of your hand or which you have no position on postflop.
      What if there are no competent, aggressive regs behind you (which would be about 80% of the time if you table select)?

      + imho what matters most is our position on the raiser, since they are the ones that have shown strength, hence we're most likely getting their stack when we both hit
    • Lefty85
      Lefty85
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 162
      In that case it's probably a +ev call. I play medium stakes so i tend to fold them since the table is full of aggro regs.

      I'm pretty much breakeven on EP and MP flats with 22-77. I do choose my spots so flatting any opener in any spot is probably not profitable.