SNG WIZARD and Fifty50 Q

    • troshacha
      troshacha
      Gold
      Joined: 11.07.2008 Posts: 268
      Hi,

      Ive just start to play fift50 at Stars to build a roll. I have some q. I am new to SNG and Im losing omaha player PLO25 by now. Ive read most of the articles for SNG and watch some videos as well.

      What is the normal roi for 1.5, 3, 7 and 15 dollars fifty50 turbo?

      Can I beat 1.5 and 3 dollars fifty50 without hud and notes?

      I think it will be a good read for beginners who start to play 50's and for me.

      Ty in advance.

      HF,
      Todor
  • 7 replies
    • kurrkabin
      kurrkabin
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 5,976
      Hi, troshacha!

      I've heard 50/50 are really a good way to build a roll or follow rake goal as they are much easier to multi table. However, big ROIs are not common once you move to the midstakes though. I think most players are like 1-2% on these limits. However, I am not 100% sure as I don't play these games and speak mostly from my side impressions. I want to double check and confirm it with people, who have bigger experience in these. If someone here can help, please go ahead. In the meantime, I will try to find some good 50/50 players to share thoughts with.

      Sorry for the extra waiting. Will be back as shortly as possible.
    • kurrkabin
      kurrkabin
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 5,976
      Ok, so I checked once again with several of the good SnG grinders and after seeing some stats of the best fifty50 players in the world, I can draw a conclusion that games are pretty much about BE for most regs. Best ones will make about 1-2% ROI at the 100$ level.

      Here's a graph for the last one year from one of the best players in these games.



      ABI: 94%
      Winings prerakeb-75k
      ROI-2%

      You can see what a crazy volume u can put in these and that combined with SN and especially with SNE brings some very, very serious profit.

      I am not sure for the micro and low stakes, but I think 3-5% ROI will be achievable for the better regs.

      As for if you can beat the 1.5$ and 3$ without a hud- I think yes. However, notes are crucial. You need to know who you are facing, his tendencies, style of play etc etc. That being said-stats will be helpful, but def. not crucial if you play without them on the very first BI levels.

      I will in the meantime try to get some extra info on these games at the lower BI levels from people who grind them regularly. If something good comes out. I will edit the post and add the info.

      Cheers!
    • qMantas
      qMantas
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.10.2010 Posts: 202
      Hey kurrkabin can you check it out what's ROI possible at the $7 limit Fifty50 Turbo SNG. TY :)
    • kurrkabin
      kurrkabin
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 5,976
      Originally posted by qMantas
      Hey kurrkabin can you check it out what's ROI possible at the $7 limit Fifty50 Turbo SNG. TY :)

      I think around 4-5% the most or so.
    • troshacha
      troshacha
      Gold
      Joined: 11.07.2008 Posts: 268
      TY a lot kurrkabin for that information.

      Maybe after some time Ill post graph of my play at micro and low stakes.

      HF&GL
    • troshacha
      troshacha
      Gold
      Joined: 11.07.2008 Posts: 268
      Hi,

      Ive got trail ver of SNG WIZARD(SW) and Ive got problems with it and Ill be grateful if u halp me.

      I play 1.5$ Fiftys and I was + 20$ 200 tourny using only HM1 then start to analysed my game with SW and Im -50$ 250 tourny. I played wrong and I thought wrond for some hands analysed by SW so here my q.

      How many BB I have to got to go push or fold? I read that 10BB is normal. Is it good to min raise whit 8-10 BB if villian is tight and he will push only if he has a strong hand (at 1.5$ Fiftys there is people with 5/4/1, 6/4/1 over 1k h).

      SW is 1.0.2.040 ver and filter for Fiftis is with that structure 60/10/10/10/10 and for that I am wondering that is SW math right?

      I readed that I have to change Edge% to 0, to choose form Very tight / Tight / Average / Loose / Very loose for Model and to change Open% and Call%. Ive PS Equilab and HM1. So is that correct that when I see Vpip 50% this is Call 50% and Pfr 30% is Open 30%? I think that some peoples will be more loose at early stages
      then whe the game is push/fold so if I see 20/15/10 at early stage I have to think that player will push/fold with less then that stats.

      How to math right Open% and Call% for vilians that had 5/4/1, 15/10/4 and let say 40/30/15 stats. I know that I have to use Equilab but how to use it?

      TY for u help.

      GL&HF
    • kurrkabin
      kurrkabin
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 5,976
      Hi again, troshacha! : )


      Yes, you can still raise/fold with 8-10bb effective. It's if you have 7bb eff. or less when you are committed to call on a shove if you raise. You can certainly take alternative lines depending on your opponents. Sometimes, I will even shove with 13-15bb with a low pocket or KTs type of hand from CO-BTN-SB f.e. if I expect villain(s) to flat call often with these effective stack sizes or re-steal quite loose. In fifty-fifty ICM is different though and you have to consider this. I don't play them myself, but ICM behind it(used in wizard) should be accurate.

      One thing to note- SnG default ranges are bad. People who have been using it for a long time know it. Don't rely on them. It's you who has to set em up in a way that seems realistic for villains tendencies. You have to go with your reads and statistics. This takes time of course, but there is plenty of it ahead of you. Post hands in the forums when you are unsure and ask a specific question posting the current HH. Because any other way, you might get the wrong idea behind our advices.

      About the edge- it's a sensitive area and it depends on a lot of factors- what's out position in the tournament, are we chip leaders, who is about to act, do we have skill advantage over the rest of the field that we can use and more. Setting it to zero is not a mistake usually, but there are also cases where you have to give yourself edge and stay away from marginal situations- say you are a chip leader on the bubble, in a very good position to finish ITM and you can exploit others tightness by shoving and be a threat for their tournament life. Or it could be the opposite- you are very short on or close to the bubble with not much FE- then your edge will be < than zero.

      Equilab is what you use to see the equity you have vs somebody else's range. You know this already, I am sure. But you have to keep in mind the pot odds that you are getting + the ICM tax that you pay. Say you might be getting 2:1 pot odds, but pay 10% ICM tax, so you are gonna need more than 33% to make the call profitable. Try ICM explorer - it has fifty50s filter and it's once again 60/10/10/10/10/10. You have to pay 20$ for it in order to use it fully, but I can assure you it's worth it.

      Cheers!