[NL2-NL10] cbet or not? 10NL

    • MisClick
      MisClick
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.05.2008 Posts: 1,186
      Hi,

      I still have problems with this kind of flop when I am holding my kind of hand. Cbet or not cbet?

      Villain unknown. He just sat down without waiting for the blind, and entered two hands. Cant remember what he showed, but didn't gain my respect. So even when unknown, a little fishy.

      Thanks a lot :heart:

      PokerStars - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 9 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      UTG: $10.97
      UTG+1: $11.28
      UTG+2: $5.49
      MP: $2.45
      MP+1: $11.83
      CO: $4.98
      BTN: $6.15
      Hero (SB): $10.00
      BB: $4.00

      Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has J:heart: J:spade:

      fold, fold, UTG+2 raises to $0.20, fold, fold, CO calls $0.20, fold, Hero raises to $0.85, fold, UTG+2 calls $0.65, fold

      Flop: ($2.00, 2 players) 6:spade: Q:club: 2:spade:
      Hero bets $1.45, UTG+2 calls $1.45

      Turn: ($4.90, 2 players) K:heart:
      Hero checks, UTG+2 checks

      River: ($4.90, 2 players) A:club:
      Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $3.00, fold

      UTG+2 wins $4.68
  • 7 replies
    • Tiltmeifucan
      Tiltmeifucan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.04.2012 Posts: 471
      Hey MC

      Seems more likely that you have to cbet here, can't really be so passive and c/f after Q high flop, because of unknown opponent. You squeeze preflop and then you wan't to c/f doesn't make sense to me.

      If you had some reads, you could even 2 barrel here, K probably add more fold equity in pot, and there's always chance that he floated flop.
    • MisClick
      MisClick
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.05.2008 Posts: 1,186
      Hey tilt, thanks a lot :heart:

      the problem is that usually this kind of player staying after a 3bet mean mostly face cards, an ace many times. I have the lowest of them all, and all of them came on the board. He could be floating, but most times he is betting there with a hand. I am not going to pay every single time this happens to catch his bluff I think, not when I have this kind of hand with that board.

      My question about cbet is because this board not only has an overcard to my pair, which hits his range, but also a flush draw. Even with other kind of pair he won't be going away. So I was thinking that once I bet there and he stays, he has position and he can easily kick me out of the hand (he did raise preflop). Once he is not going, I am not investing more (specially when the board turns so ugly). So my hand gets turned into some kind of bluff as I don't know where I am and I am actually drawing to a J. If there is no fold equity on that flop, then I am not sure it is a good idea to cbet?
    • Tiltmeifucan
      Tiltmeifucan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.04.2012 Posts: 471
      Originally posted by MisClick
      Hey tilt, thanks a lot :heart:

      the problem is that usually this kind of player staying after a 3bet mean mostly face cards, an ace many times. I have the lowest of them all, and all of them came on the board. He could be floating, but most times he is betting there with a hand. I am not going to pay every single time this happens to catch his bluff I think, not when I have this kind of hand with that board.

      My question about cbet is because this board not only has an overcard to my pair, which hits his range, but also a flush draw. Even with other kind of pair he won't be going away. So I was thinking that once I bet there and he stays, he has position and he can easily kick me out of the hand (he did raise preflop). Once he is not going, I am not investing more (specially when the board turns so ugly). So my hand gets turned into some kind of bluff as I don't know where I am and I am actually drawing to a J. If there is no fold equity on that flop, then I am not sure it is a good idea to cbet?
      .

      This makes sense, except your preflop squeeze. Why do you invest so much money preflop, if you know you won't stay aggresive after flop? Even if you had overpair, you still would just make a cbet, and c/f turn.
    • MisClick
      MisClick
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.05.2008 Posts: 1,186
      Originally posted by Tiltmeifucan
      Originally posted by MisClick
      Hey tilt, thanks a lot :heart:

      the problem is that usually this kind of player staying after a 3bet mean mostly face cards, an ace many times. I have the lowest of them all, and all of them came on the board. He could be floating, but most times he is betting there with a hand. I am not going to pay every single time this happens to catch his bluff I think, not when I have this kind of hand with that board.

      My question about cbet is because this board not only has an overcard to my pair, which hits his range, but also a flush draw. Even with other kind of pair he won't be going away. So I was thinking that once I bet there and he stays, he has position and he can easily kick me out of the hand (he did raise preflop). Once he is not going, I am not investing more (specially when the board turns so ugly). So my hand gets turned into some kind of bluff as I don't know where I am and I am actually drawing to a J. If there is no fold equity on that flop, then I am not sure it is a good idea to cbet?
      .

      This makes sense, except your preflop squeeze. Why do you invest so much money preflop, if you know you won't stay aggresive after flop? Even if you had overpair, you still would just make a cbet, and c/f turn.
      Because Preflop (before that not nice flop + turn + river) I think I am mostly ahead of the range he makes this play with:


             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    35.34%  34.57%   0.76% { QQ-77, AQs-A9s, KTs+, QJs, AQo-ATo, KJo+ }
      MP3    64.66%  63.90%   0.76% { JJ }


      I am being generous here with him, as I am putting him in a tighter range than i think he really had (I think his suited aces range and pps is wider actually). Even adding some slow-play hands (in my experience this kind of player will shove AA-QQ and even probably down to TT, AJ+, but let's give him some tightness as he is still a little unknown), we are mostly ahead. (AND we get to play oop, which I don't like, so I want to make him pay for that and take the lead. I am never flatting here v. him, also there is the BB so I want to isolate).
    • MisClick
      MisClick
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.05.2008 Posts: 1,186
      (by the way, I think after posting this it does make it clear I probably need to cbet here :D I think just turn and river suck once he stays)
    • Tiltmeifucan
      Tiltmeifucan
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.04.2012 Posts: 471
      That's just the way it is, after you analyze your hand more serious, you realize what's going on.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello MisClick,

      Rather Bet the turn as well and might even protect from draws and also avoid turning your hand into bluff-catcher. Check/Folding might be too weak on the turn.

      Best Regards.