My statistics, any leaks?

    • verovanbeerke
      verovanbeerke
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2009 Posts: 6
      Hi everyone,

      since a few weeks i ve been playing poker again. I ve tried it a few years ago, busted my bankroll, alltough I followed the rules of pokerstrategy, seen videos, read pokerbooks, etc.
      One thing I didnt do back then was post my hands here, nearly never asked any questions, because I wanted to make it on my own. And maybe that was the problem, not getting any help from the specialists.

      But anyway, now I m completely motivated to make it a succes. Hopefully with some help of you guys.

      I ve deposited 25 euro on Partypoker, started playing, thanks to tournaments my bankroll is now 90 euro (won 90 euro and 14 euro) but I loose most of my money with cash games.

      Now, i know what you gonna say, just play tournaments in stead of cash tables. Allright, i can understand that, but if i wanna grow in this game, i should be able to beat the low stakes cash tables.

      Now i ve downoaded Pokertracker (the 60 day trial), so i ve got some statistics from my cash table hands, about 3600 hands. Is there anyone how can check these statistics and give me their opinion?

      And is here any successful player who looses money on cash tables but does make a profit on MTT s, SNG s, or any other form of tournament?

      Thanks in advance for your answer.

      Hands: 3.608
      VP$IP: 14,02
      PFR: 6,29
      W$WSF: 47,35
      WTSD: 18,47
      W$SD: 59,57
      AF: 5,39
      AFq: 58,39
      3BET: 1,52
      Fold 3B: 81,72
      Att to steal: 13,68
      Fold BB to steal: 80,77
      Fold SB to steal: 90,91
  • 13 replies
    • circoflax
      circoflax
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.02.2010 Posts: 413
      This is how I would play against you:

      I would 3 barrel you every hand as bluff.
      I would never fold to your raises post-flop, never calling but always re-raising, folding if you shove.
      I would be very carefull if you limp - call and raise OOP postflop.
      I would fold to all you 3bets unless I have AA.
      I would 3bet you mostly as a bluff.
      I would only defend good hands against your steal, 3betting a lot of crap.
      I would raise your blind with any 2 from LP.

      Maybe you can see some of your leaks.
    • inlovewithamsterdam
      inlovewithamsterdam
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2009 Posts: 666
      Looking at this - very small - sample (you need about 25-30k hands to be able to make some solid judgements) there are a few things I'd suggest:

      you need to 3bet more for value (= raise when you think you will be called by weaker hands) in profitable spots, e.g. vs fish, need to raise more, especially in late position, go more to showdown. Working on your hand & board reading skills should help you achieve those.

      Your gap between VPIP and PFR is too big, you need to play more with initiative - always favour raising to calling (within reason ofc), don't limp first-in at all and only call people's raises when you're sure your hand is ahead of them and that you won't always just give up unimproved post-flop.

      I'd expect there's a lot more to improve than that, try studying about fundamentals - start with valuebetting, c-betting and preflop play (what hands to raise from what positions, vs. what opponents).
    • Meda1985
      Meda1985
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2011 Posts: 233
      Originally posted by circoflax
      This is how I would play against you:

      I would 3 barrel you every hand as bluff.
      I would never fold to your raises post-flop, never calling but always re-raising, folding if you shove.
      I would be very carefull if you limp - call and raise OOP postflop.
      I would fold to all you 3bets unless I have AA.
      I would 3bet you mostly as a bluff.
      I would only defend good hands against your steal, 3betting a lot of crap.
      I would raise your blind with any 2 from LP.

      Maybe you can see some of your leaks.
      Could you please elaborate on these? I think I get some, but some I don't... It would be quite helpful for the guy that started this thread, for me and for everybody that reads this! I mean, why would you triple barrel him, why this why that? If you have time, that is... :)
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      hi verovanbeerke

      it's good that you want to grow in the game and improve by playing cash tables. if you haven't already, you should consider the NL Beginner's course (link). also, aside from the sample size being too small, are you playing full ring or short handed games? your stats should be different depending on which type you play.
    • verovanbeerke
      verovanbeerke
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2009 Posts: 6
      Thanks guys for your answers. My intention now is to study for a week on these leaks and then play cash games again. Meanwhile i will play some tournaments.

      The problem i had untill now was when watching a pokervideo or reading a pokerbook i always wanted to test the new knowledge rightaway. So if i read about cbetting i stopped reading and started to play. Maybe i should have a bit more patience, start to study and after a while start to play again the correct way.

      It s obvious that i have a lot of leaks (cant say that i didnt expect that). I m gonna work on this and improve myself so i can beat the low limits.

      One more question tough. If i see the beginners lessons, like the starting hand chart and if i compare this with starter video s they all play more hands then the starting hand chart says. So, i try to play like the videos otherwise i loose to much on the blinds because i play a very limited amount of hands. Do you agree or am i making a mistake somewhere?

      I really like the way you guys help each other here. Great to be a part of this :-)
    • verovanbeerke
      verovanbeerke
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2009 Posts: 6
      Originally posted by DrDunne
      hi verovanbeerke

      it's good that you want to grow in the game and improve by playing cash tables. if you haven't already, you should consider the NL Beginner's course (link). also, aside from the sample size being too small, are you playing full ring or short handed games? your stats should be different depending on which type you play.
      I really agree with this :-)
    • circoflax
      circoflax
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.02.2010 Posts: 413
      WTSD a bit low, W$SD a bit high, which means he is folding a lot, so I would be bluffing a lot.

      He doesn't raise much pre, but has high AF, that means he donks and raises a lot with weak holdings and bluffs.

      Players with this type of stats that limp-call OOP, then raise the flop, have usually hit a set.

      He 3bets way too low, I guess only AA, KK and sometimes AKs-QQ. So there's not need to get involved for big pots pre with less than the nuts. I would call IP to set mine if given the right odds.

      He folds a lot to 3bets so I would 3bet bluff a lot blocker hands like Ax.

      Steal is way too low, maybe it's ok for SB, but BTN steal should be much higher so the average should also be a lot higher. He clearly only plays strong hands, so I wouldn't get involved with QT OOP.

      If a guy has that high fold to steal, it's profitable to raise with any 2 from SB. On the BTN it depends on the other guy involved. If he has similar stats, any 2!

      Originally posted by Meda1985
      Originally posted by circoflax
      This is how I would play against you:

      I would 3 barrel you every hand as bluff.
      I would never fold to your raises post-flop, never calling but always re-raising, folding if you shove.
      I would be very carefull if you limp - call and raise OOP postflop.
      I would fold to all you 3bets unless I have AA.
      I would 3bet you mostly as a bluff.
      I would only defend good hands against your steal, 3betting a lot of crap.
      I would raise your blind with any 2 from LP.

      Maybe you can see some of your leaks.
      Could you please elaborate on these? I think I get some, but some I don't... It would be quite helpful for the guy that started this thread, for me and for everybody that reads this! I mean, why would you triple barrel him, why this why that? If you have time, that is... :)
    • RasTweet
      RasTweet
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      Originally posted by verovanbeerke
      One more question tough. If i see the beginners lessons, like the starting hand chart and if i compare this with starter video s they all play more hands then the starting hand chart says. So, i try to play like the videos otherwise i loose to much on the blinds because i play a very limited amount of hands. Do you agree or am i making a mistake somewhere?
      Stick to the starting hands chart if you ask me! I started with it as well one day and really it makes your life a lot easier! It is tight, but you don't have to keep playing that way.

      From your stats it's really hard to tell what you're doing wrong, because the sample size is just to small. If you look again in 20k hands it'll all be changed.

      Everything else is said really. But I highly recommend that you start with the No Limit Beginners course like DrDunne told you before. It's the best way to start of your poker career!

      Best of luck on the tables!

      RasTweet
    • inlovewithamsterdam
      inlovewithamsterdam
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2009 Posts: 666
      I don't think this "what i would do against him" format will work for this beginning player. How the fuck is he supposed to learn from this?

      Plus I don't think you got some of those things right (like about the AF - he's got high AF because he plays a strong range, hence raises and bets far more than he calls/checks postflop)
    • circoflax
      circoflax
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.02.2010 Posts: 413
      Originally posted by inlovewithamsterdam
      Plus I don't think you got some of those things right (like about the AF - he's got high AF because he plays a strong range, hence raises and bets far more than he calls/checks postflop)
      He calls raises 3 more times than he raises himself... He can't have a high AF unless he takes the initiative somewhere postflop.
    • verovanbeerke
      verovanbeerke
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2009 Posts: 6
      Originally posted by circoflax
      Originally posted by inlovewithamsterdam
      Plus I don't think you got some of those things right (like about the AF - he's got high AF because he plays a strong range, hence raises and bets far more than he calls/checks postflop)
      He calls raises 3 more times than he raises himself... He can't have a high AF unless he takes the initiative somewhere postflop.
      Like someone posted here before, the best way for me is to start allover again by reading and practicing the BSS. I like the game but if i read your comments i understand some part of it, but a lot of the comment is not clear. So i can say for myself that i still have a long way to go. And is was way to soon to post my statistics to search for leaks.

      I will post again in a few months, after i played 10k hands bss style.

      Thanks for your comments guys.
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      hi mate

      if you're just starting out with BSS then it's probably more important to just work on your game and play according to strategy. if you do that, then your stats will start to look solid enough anyway. and sample sizes you'll want at least 30k hands if you want solid feedback.

      also your game will be changing lots throughout that sample - you'll start to notice things that you are doing that aren't good so you will change them and that will skew the stats. best to just focus on your game imo - the statistics will follow :D

      good luck!
    • nefarious26
      nefarious26
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 413
      6 max or FR?