45 mans Breaking 5%+ ROI

    • sugalde
      sugalde
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 127
      Hey Guys just need abit of a pump to get over this little hump i've been on, I've notched up around 550 games this month and taken about 9 days off when I had a friend visit from interstate.

      Last month I was 6 to 8 tabling tiled with ROI of 34%, this month been averaging 14 to 20 stacked for a few hours most nights. So i expect a little downswing while I learn to play stacked how ever looking over my history's I've cashed enough to make profit however Im leaving alot of monies at the final tables, and my bubbles are massive is this just because you make alot of FT's in 45's ?

      I know I should be wrapped its not a downswing, but it just feels like it won't end, yeah Im bitching and I've seen dudes with 5K games BE so I should keep loading right ? .

      I know 550 this month isn't much by most standards but it feels like for ever last night out of 40 games I had 8 bubbles, 9 cashes which I'm happy with but i was still 6 buy ins down for the session. I know that with say 5% increase in position to overall money finishes would put me roughly about 10 to 15 % ROI where I'd be happy with. Other than ICM what is the best training for bubble and final tables ? I've been considering just jumping up to $1.50's 45 mans however I only have $215 BR, I'd like $250 if i was playing $1.50's

      My name on stars is YevBroom

      Hold'em NL 757 games $389 Prizes $15 Profit 5% ROI @ $0.50
      143/757 Games 19% ITM


      Should I take a stab at $1.50's im starting to think this might help my variance because less spew and retards from nubs at 0.50cent level ? MY steals are always called by rubbish and I loose flip etc. Terrible play at 0.50 cents 45 mans on stars.
  • 8 replies
    • sugalde
      sugalde
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 127
      Can people please share break even stories and how they beat it :) ? Thanks
    • Salivanth
      Salivanth
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2011 Posts: 587
      The best way to train for FT's imo is to play 9-man SNG's. Yes, the ICM is different as it's a 50-30-20 structure, but it'll help teach you how to play short-handed. My other piece of advice is that the bubble is not as relevant in 45-mans, considering that 1st is worth nearly 10 times as much as 7th. You want to get those high places, so don't be afraid to go all-in on the bubble. (You want to be risk averse, but only mildly so.)

      Don't move up. Your variance is not going to decrease when players begin playing better. It sounds like it will, but it simply won't. The more mistakes your opponents make, the better that is for you. The single greatest factor influencing variance is your winrate. The higher your winrate, the lower your variance.

      Of course, the amount of tables you're playing can't be helping your winrate.
    • vanyxster
      vanyxster
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2011 Posts: 17
      Hi dude , very conservative BR I think you should try to be more agresive..... 100 BI for level , move to level down when u have negative session even if u have more than 100 bi on level ( by negative session i mean 25-50 games without cash in or small cash ins that dont cover your BI expenses. First positive session & 100 buyins on higher level is condition to play at level on which you actually have enough (100 - 150 BI depending on your preferences & taste) . Good luck! :f_cool:
    • Kamikaze001
      Kamikaze001
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.11.2007 Posts: 5,832
      Originally posted by Salivanth
      The best way to train for FT's imo is to play 9-man SNG's. Yes, the ICM is different as it's a 50-30-20 structure, but it'll help teach you how to play short-handed. My other piece of advice is that the bubble is not as relevant in 45-mans, considering that 1st is worth nearly 10 times as much as 7th. You want to get those high places, so don't be afraid to go all-in on the bubble. (You want to be risk averse, but only mildly so.)

      Don't move up. Your variance is not going to decrease when players begin playing better. It sounds like it will, but it simply won't. The more mistakes your opponents make, the better that is for you. The single greatest factor influencing variance is your winrate. The higher your winrate, the lower your variance.

      Of course, the amount of tables you're playing can't be helping your winrate.
      That's nonsense. If u wanna train for 45man FTs get the sng wizard, analyze ur own game, compare wizard/nash ranges and understand the differences.
      What u say about the bubble is not completely wrong, still far away from optimum play. Again to realize that u have to get the concept of the 45man adjusted final table ranges.

      550 games are nothing. Still u should improve ur game and build up a good samplesize...by doing that the profit and good ROI will come. Maybe soon, maybe in a couple of k games.

      U should try to play with an at least 150 buy-in brm. Better 200+

      edit: i recommend u to watch the braminc videos. he makes rlly good mtsng content :)
    • Kamikaze001
      Kamikaze001
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.11.2007 Posts: 5,832
      Originally posted by vanyxster
      Hi dude , very conservative BR I think you should try to be more agresive..... 100 BI for level , move to level down when u have negative session even if u have more than 100 bi on level ( by negative session i mean 25-50 games without cash in or small cash ins that dont cover your BI expenses. First positive session & 100 buyins on higher level is condition to play at level on which you actually have enough (100 - 150 BI depending on your preferences & taste) . Good luck! :f_cool:
      if the guy is 20-tabling 100bis is very little. for 20 tabling at least 150+ buy-ins
    • sugalde
      sugalde
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 127
      Thankyou for your thoughts and advice, really appreciated guys! Going to try and have a big finish for the month, I took last night off to study and observe other regs! Gave mle the mojo to just load up 20 tables for at least 4 or 5 hours tonight should crack 80 or 100 games ride that variance out :)
    • arthurbentley
      arthurbentley
      Silver
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 234
      I see going by the stakes you play that you are playing turbo 45 mans. How about playing normal speed 0.25-mans, and/or $1 45-mans. This will lower the variance?

      You can start playing the 0.25 cent games, and if you hit a down-swing, after so many many games (you decide how many) then play the $1 45-mans with an anticipated upswing in mind. Then drop back-down to 0.25 after you have more than made up for any down-swing at the 0.25. Keep on playing this system until your bankroll dictates that you should move up limits.

      There is no skill difference between the 0.25 cent and $1 45-mans. They play exactly the same. So it won't be a case of 'chasing losses' by moving up stakes from 0.25 to $1 because your bankroll is plenty for the $1 45-mans.

      You could try this strategy for the turbos as well. If you don't mind the swingy nature of turbos that is. Just make sure you are rolled for the higher buy-in limit for this strategy to work - 200 buy-ins. $300 for the $1.50.
    • sugalde
      sugalde
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2008 Posts: 127
      Hey arthurbentley

      going to keep focusing on turbo's because I think that is more suited to my late shove game :) And I'm building a roll for 180mans eventually.

      Well the advice must be working, had a very nice up swong tonight at the 0.50 / 45man Turbo's +$35.00 very long wait this month, also got in 105 games felt good playing 20 non stop I should be able to avg 75 to 100 a night so hopefully $1.50's for July

      Definately plugged a few leaks with last night off to study funny thing is I even though I got a huge amount of cashes and ran like god mostly, I probably could of done better got pretty unlucky when it was done to 4 man!!! Oh well heaps of motivation for tomorrows session.