[NL20-NL50] AKs shove agaisnt CO unknown

    • Gonchan
      Gonchan
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2011 Posts: 2,867
      IPoker, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $21.69 (108.5 bb)
      BB: $3.50 (17.5 bb)
      CO: $21.56 (107.8 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $24.41 (122.1 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with A K
      CO raises to $0.60, Hero raises to $1.80, 2 folds, CO raises to $4.20, Hero raises to $24.41 and is all-in, CO calls $17.36 and is all-in

      Flop: ($43.42) T 8 3 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      Turn: ($43.42) Q (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      River: ($43.42) 3 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

      Results:
      $43.42 pot ($1.00 rake)
      Final Board: T 8 3 Q 3
      CO showed K K and won $42.42 ($20.86 net)
      Hero mucked A K and lost (-$21.56 net)


      I noticed he is 17/9/121 on hand review.
      against unknown, should I fold after 4bet on BSS against CO?
  • 15 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Gonchan,

      What's the purpose of 3betting in first place here vs 9 PFR? Why not rather keep his range wide and just Call. It's very likely that if such a guy is going to 4bet you, he has you hardly beat and you wont even be able to get it in profitable.

      Best Regards.
    • Gonchan
      Gonchan
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2011 Posts: 2,867
      it was speed poker and I couldn't use HUD when I played..
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Gonchan
      it was speed poker and I couldn't use HUD when I played..
      Never even tried it, it's same as ZOOM I guess?
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Without reads BTN vs CO it's std to go broke with AKs.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Without reads BTN vs CO it's std to go broke with AKs.
      Disagree, if it's Speed aka ZOOM then you might never-ever even see people going broke here loose. It could easily be 3bet for value and afterwards even fold, especially vs such a nitty opponent.
    • Gonchan
      Gonchan
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2011 Posts: 2,867
      veriz
      There are some villain who call BTN's steal and called my shove with 33 on speed.So I think there are lot of value(although I think you are bothered because of a few stakes)

      Farmarchist
      If I don't know he is nitty, I'll shove otherwise I'll 3bet/fold
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Gonchan
      veriz
      There are some villain who call BTN's steal and called my shove with 33 on speed.So I think there are lot of value(although I think you are bothered because of a few stakes)

      Farmarchist
      If I don't know he is nitty, I'll shove otherwise I'll 3bet/fold
      What do you mean few stakes? I assume that your stakes are much more nittier cause people don't even know what to do in speed, they just playing nitty and waiting for strong hand which isn't true on higher limits where people know what they doing.

      I have also seen a guy going broke 72o on NL600, so what? :D
    • Supremace
      Supremace
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2010 Posts: 63
      Why would you ever 3b/ fold AK IP vs a nit? Much better to call and play it in position vs a wider CO range. If you 3b fold AK you are turning your hand into a bluff and you dont need AK to 3b bluff pf. In order to make profit 5 betting AK either your opponent must pay you off with worse hands such as AQ and KQ or he has to 4 bet bluff with some frequency. This is the reason 5 betting tags and fishes with AK can show good profit but also it is the reason this hand performs poorly against nits 4betting range which is comprised entirely of value hands.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Supremace
      Why would you ever 3b/ fold AK IP vs a nit? Much better to call and play it in position vs a wider CO range. If you 3b fold AK you are turning your hand into a bluff and you dont need AK to 3b bluff pf. In order to make profit 5 betting AK either your opponent must pay you off with worse hands such as AQ and KQ or he has to 4 bet bluff with some frequency. This is the reason 5 betting tags and fishes with AK can show good profit but also it is the reason this hand performs poorly against nits 4betting range which is comprised entirely of value hands.
      Cause hero went for 3bet? We can't take it back and of course I'd keep his range wide by flatting and playing postflop than turning just my hand into bluff.
    • Gonchan
      Gonchan
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2011 Posts: 2,867
      veriz
      Because there are few option, 20NL,10NL,5NL.
      There isn't 500NL lol

      Supremace
      Because he was unknown when I played..
      If I know he is nit, I'll flat call.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Gonchan
      veriz
      Because there are few option, 20NL,10NL,5NL.
      There isn't 500NL lol

      Supremace
      Because he was unknown when I played..
      If I know he is nit, I'll flat call.
      I wasn't talking about iPoker, you can easily go to PokerStars where they have NL500 ZOOM. ;)
    • Gonchan
      Gonchan
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2011 Posts: 2,867
      Unfortunately,I couldn't track my account with Pokerstars.
      However, I may move to PS because of rake size on micro stake..
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Gonchan
      Unfortunately,I couldn't track my account with Pokerstars.
      However, I may move to PS because of rake size on micro stake..
      That's sad, cause at least that would be even extra rakeback that I would be tracked and get points due the videos and maybe one day even black member. :( But go for whatever suits the best for you, my advice would even to be to play normal tables where you can select the opponents yourself and pick up the winrate.
    • Gonchan
      Gonchan
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2011 Posts: 2,867
      I registered pokerstars.net somewhere and I deposited firstly by pokerstrategy.


      I think they miss the value from future poker star( or well rake payer lol)with
      only solid rule..

      Anyway, I'll proceed pokercarrer anywhere.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Gonchan
      I registered pokerstars.net somewhere and I deposited firstly by pokerstrategy.


      I think they miss the value from future poker star( or well rake payer lol)with
      only solid rule..

      Anyway, I'll proceed pokercarrer anywhere.
      I'd advice to pick the normal tables. :P