3b'ing, playing OOP NPFA and range assessing

    • muel294
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,225
      Hi all,

      I am looking for some advice regarding the above. There are many times when I have found that I have a playable hand that I assume to be ahead of my opponents range, but I don't want to 3b.

      My reasons for not 3b'ing are often as follows:
      :spade: I will ISO myself vs a stronger range
      :spade: I don't think my opponent will call or 4b worse hands

      Here are a few examples:

      1) BU is unknown

      Lets give BU the PS.com SH tight opening range

      22+,A2s+,K8s+,Q8s+,J7s+,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,54s,A9o+,K9o+,Q9o+,J8o+,T8o+,97o+,87o,76o,65o,54o (36%)

      PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: $2.00
      SB: $2.05
      Hero (BB): $2.00
      UTG: $2.00
      MP: $11.12
      CO: $1.97

      SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has Q:spade: A:club:

      fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.07, fold, Hero....?

      we have the following choices: 3b/fold, 3b/broke, call or fold

      Fold: so we can rule this out as this is way too weak IMO

      3b/broke: Obviously villain's range is going to be much wider on the button, therefore he will fold more often when raising 1st in from this position because he has such a weak range. Therefore if we 3b we are going to take down the 3.5bb + other dead money very often. However, if no worse hand could call or 4b then this would be comparable to a bluff. Obviously If we think villain is vLAG or MANIAC then we can maybe take this line. But I think that it is safe to assume that most players will only 4b hands that have AQ in bad shape.

      If we take an very optimistic 4b'ing range :

             Equity     Win     Tie
      BU     65.60%  55.27%  10.33% { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }
      BB     34.40%  24.06%  10.33% { AQo }

      3b/fold: So obviously if we get 4b then it is an easy fold against the vast majority of players. So what if we get called? This is where I have trouble range assessing correctly. Obviously this is a dynamic process of watching what our opp's call 3b's with and adapting our 3b'ing strategy accordingly. I.e if villain calls 3b's too liberally then we want to depolarize our 3b'ing range and 3b villain wider for value. If our opponent's regularly fold to 3b's then we should polarize more ( more suited connectors and less marginal value hands and QQ+ AK+). Also if we do get called what is our plan for the flop? Many a time I have posted hands in the HE forum in 3b pots OOP, I bet the flop, get called and give up on the turn. This seems to be a surefire way to burn money.

      Flat call: This often seems the best line for me at the moment, especially against unknowns and especially in ZOOM where the majority of your opponents are unknown and we know nothing about how they react to 3b's. The only problem is how to play postflop if we miss. We are mostly going to have to c/f or bluff raise unimproved.


      What do you guys think? Can you link me any good forum threads, videos or articles on the subject?

  • 2 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 10,351
      I like the way you think.

      Also if we do get called what is our plan for the flop? Many a time I have posted hands in the HE forum in 3b pots OOP, I bet the flop, get called and give up on the turn.
      Assume you flat call.
      Your plan for the flop needs to include the various flop textures and whether you hit your hand, and how hard. You also need to consider whether villain hit too, and how hard.

      I hate donking.
      If I have a hand I could donk with, I will c/r instead most of the time.
      If I get checked behind, I can bet out the turn.

      It seems to me that when I donk, I get raised and then I fold, so if I'm going to donk and fold, I might as well c/f and save my money.

      If I c/r, then what I do with a 4Bet depends entirely on my hand and less on villain, because I don't have enough hands on any villains to make 4Bet stats meaningful.

      I'm eager to here what the experts say...
    • muel294
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,225
      thanks for the input. I have just been reading a good article on blind defense (as these situations seem to crop up quite frequently in those situations) and it recommends polarizing OOP (i.e 3b'ing SC's and small PP's as semibluff and QQ+ and AKo+ for value). It also gave me some good tips on balancing c/f and c/rai lines in 3b pots and in which spots to c-bet.

      I'm going to give it a whirl in my next session. Hopefully it will work out.
      Blind Defense