[NL20-NL50] Facing check raise on the flop with a draw

    • Supremace
      Supremace
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2010 Posts: 63
      Villain is TAG on 300 hands sample 20/17, first time I see him check raise out of 6 times he didn't cbet. I think he is never check raising JJ+ in this spot but rather big broadways, 88, 99,and maybe 89, fds but I am not sure if connectors are in his utg opening range. So his check raise confused me quite a bit. Looking back at the hand i think i should have bet half pot on the turn. when he checked the turn and then check the river I was certain he wasn't strong there, but if I bet on the river i would certainly get called by 99 or 88 since I didn't rep a good hand by checking the turn. Your thoughts?


      Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      saw flop | saw showdown

      Button ($24.60)
      SB ($29.48)
      BB ($9.80)
      UTG ($24.70)
      MP ($10.64)
      Hero (CO) ($38.25)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with J, Q
      UTG bets $0.80, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.80, 3 folds

      Flop: ($2) 10, 7, 2 (2 players)
      UTG checks, Hero bets $1.45, UTG raises $4.30, Hero calls $2.85

      Turn: ($10.60) 3 (2 players)
      UTG checks, Hero checks

      River: ($10.60) 5 (2 players)
      UTG checks, Hero checks

      Total pot: $10.60

      Results:
      UTG had Q, K (high card, King).
      Hero had J, Q (high card, Queen).
      Outcome: UTG won $10.10
  • 4 replies
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Preflop is not that std... Without any good plan I'd fold.

      Flop is std.

      Now how I play it going to the turn:
      Villain is pretty polorized. It sucks to get ch/r again OTT so I check there too. When he checks the river it's almost always a bluffs, 88-99 wouldn't make sense. Easy cbet imo, $4. Just not smaller so we don't induce him to spew. Bigger is not needed
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Supremace,

      Preflop: Why do you Call in first place here? What else do you know on the opponent besides VPIP/PFR? How you abusing those 2 stats to make profit postflop?

      As played
      Turn: Turn can be played differently, depends a lot on the opponent. Vs some we can easily even Bet the turn cause his play obviously doesn't make sense. We could just take it down right there. I would assume he is almost always 2nd barreling here with sets, so which would most likely just make a stab here while I see weakness in his play. If I would assume something else I'd Check it behind.

      As played
      River: Just give a Bet I doubt that he will have many made hands which ain't betting the river anymore for value. We don't even need to be very successful here, ~1/2 should work to gain like 33% fold equity and in long run it should be the case vs some kind of Ax hands or whatsoever range.

      Best Regards.
    • Supremace
      Supremace
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2010 Posts: 63
      Yeah it is a bad pf decision, it is not my standard play there. Had a feeling I could outplay him because I saw a weak play with a very strong draw from him a couple hands before. Should have folded pf.

      Anyway if we assume he doesn't have a very strong c/r range since he does have a very high cbet stat of around 80 is it okay to 3b the flop sometimes? Also how should I play AKs in this spot, always 3b the flop for value of a draw and overcarrds?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Anyway if we assume he doesn't have a very strong c/r range since he does have a very high cbet stat of around 80 is it okay to 3b the flop sometimes?

      We can overplay the same Check/Raising range very often on turn as well, no need even to get it in.

      Also how should I play AKs in this spot, always 3b the flop for value of a draw and overcarrds?

      Depends a lot on the opponent you are against, what kind of stacks we have and also what kind of image we have. We of course raising it as we played it passively preflop but afterwards depends how loose the guy is going broke but most likely yes cause we might count even overcards as outs if the guy is capable of going broke loose enough.