[NL20-NL50] NL25sh - 2barrels in 3b pot

    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Hey veriz,

      Is this also a good spot to 2nd barrel?
      Villain is again +-unknown. I've got a 50 hand sample and he plats solid/TAG so far. 19/16. I don't know anything about his postflop play so that's why I chose to resteal him allthough I think this hand plays pretty good even OOP.

      Dry flop and easy cbet. I pick up some extra equity on the turn and he may float that flop + fold some PP's ott like 99-TT

      Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1811240
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      MP: $25.35
      CO: $49.23
      BTN: $24.65
      Hero (SB): $25.10
      BB: $15.69
      UTG: $33.86

      Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with Q :heart: T :heart:
      3 folds, BTN raises to $0.60, Hero raises to $2.25, 1 fold, BTN calls $1.65

      Flop: ($4.75) 8 :spade: 6 :diamond: 3 :club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.75, BTN calls $2.75

      Turn: ($10.25) J :diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets $5.75
  • 13 replies
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,808
      Hey Farmachist,

      What s the plan on the river? I mean with this sizes are you preparing yourself for a shove? Becuase I dotn see him folding any 99 or TT OTT especially with such a sizing. I dont mind the sizing in case you plan to shove on most rivers
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Farmarchist,

      Check/Fold the flop rather than CB it, we don't even have that many backdoors which could help us nor working overcards. His calling range could contain a lot of PPs which will definitely Call it.

      If you decide to CB then not much to comment, CB size should be also fine while assuming it's a 3bet pot. We would be playing most likely our strong range the same way.

      Best Regards.
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,808
      Originally posted by veriz

      We would be playing most likely our strong range the same way.

      Best Regards.
      I think that we make our size a bit bigger when we have stroger range becuase we dont we dont wanna maximaze our fold equity on the river which we do want with such sizing. I lately took more on notes taking and actually I saw in most cases that in a certain way value bets differe from bluff bets.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Sikac
      Originally posted by veriz

      We would be playing most likely our strong range the same way.

      Best Regards.
      I think that we make our size a bit bigger when we have stroger range becuase we dont we dont wanna maximaze our fold equity on the river which we do want with such sizing. I lately took more on notes taking and actually I saw in most cases that in a certain way value bets differe from bluff bets.
      If you do then do it but I like his CB sizes. :) I have CBs in 3bet pots similar to his, works also the same way and even induce to float some crap but meanwhile have still nice fold equity on the turn.
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,808
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Sikac
      Originally posted by veriz

      We would be playing most likely our strong range the same way.

      Best Regards.
      I think that we make our size a bit bigger when we have stroger range becuase we dont we dont wanna maximaze our fold equity on the river which we do want with such sizing. I lately took more on notes taking and actually I saw in most cases that in a certain way value bets differe from bluff bets.
      If you do then do it but I like his CB sizes. :) I have CBs in 3bet pots similar to his, works also the same way and even induce to float some crap but meanwhile have still nice fold equity on the turn.
      I think of course you do understand why more concepts the we do( you pay more attention to be balanced in sucha spot). :P
      But you still like the size and if X/F river on most cards? Because I dont see having a lot of FE in BTNvsSB against 99 ,TT, or 8x with such sizing if we diminuish our playing streets.Also kinda interesting what would he do if a Q or T comes?
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      I'm almost always cbetting 60% pot in 3b pots on the flop unless the board is really wet and I have a strong hand but that happens allmost never in 3bet pots.

      Only question: You say ch/f flop is fine too but how can this be? His range contains mainly broadways which all whiff this board. (I mean miss :P )
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      But you still like the size and if X/F river on most cards? Because I dont see having a lot of FE in BTNvsSB against 99 ,TT, or 8x with such sizing if we diminuish our playing streets.Also kinda interesting what would he do if a Q or T comes?

      Without knowing the opponent, yes I'd Check/Fold the river cause he has also traps in his range. :)

      Why would a T change much there? We have then just showdown value and maybe the same for Q even. From what do you get called if a Q comes and you shove?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      I'm almost always cbetting 60% pot in 3b pots on the flop unless the board is really wet and I have a strong hand but that happens allmost never in 3bet pots.

      Only question: You say ch/f flop is fine too but how can this be? His range contains mainly broadways which all whiff this board. (I mean miss :P )
      Doh, sorry missed that one. :D Well, do you know him to put him that wide range and all the broadways?
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      combo's broadways > combo's pairs. That's allmost always the case
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      combo's broadways > combo's pairs. That's allmost always the case
      Curious to see what kind of broadways you see ALMOST ALWAYS the opponent calling then. Please post them.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      combo's broadways > combo's pairs. That's allmost always the case
      Curious to see what kind of broadways you see ALMOST ALWAYS the opponent calling then. Please post them.
      Why you ask with which broadways he's calling? I thought we were discussing if he was going to fold enough on the flop to make the flopbet directly +EV?

      And thus I'll construct a range for him.

      JJ-77,AQs-AJs,KJs+,QJs,JTs,AQo,KQo,AhJd,AsJd,AsJh,AcJd,AcJh,AcJs

      So some pairs and most of the range non-pairs... Gave him just half of AJ combo's cause we don't know if he's gonna call AJ.

      Combo's pairs: 24
      combo's broadways: 44

      As I thought combo's broadways > combo's pairs.

      the cbet has to work about 35-40% of the time so he can even float some broadways here to make the cbet on his own +ev

      Hope this al makes sense :f_grin:
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Cause you said "combo's broadways > combo's pairs. That's allmost always the case". How can you base on that, so far we know only that he is rather tighter player who had solid stats with 19/16.

      Which brings me to the case that I don't really see those tight players calling with KQo/AJo and maybe not even those lower broadways. If you are putting so loose range on his broadway range then why not all PPs? Cause any PP can set-mine there vs the given size? He is getting the implied odds.

      Plus you are taking into account that he almost always folds his overcards, how can you assume that? Why shouldn't he continue with some part of his overcards to float once, the board is super dry plus it's BTNvsBlinds. From what do you base that the guy folds 100% of his overcard range?
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Originally posted by veriz
      Cause you said "combo's broadways > combo's pairs. That's allmost always the case". How can you base on that, so far we know only that he is rather tighter player who had solid stats with 19/16.

      Which brings me to the case that I don't really see those tight players calling with KQo/AJo and maybe not even those lower broadways. If you are putting so loose range on his broadway range then why not all PPs? Cause any PP can set-mine there vs the given size? He is getting the implied odds.

      Plus you are taking into account that he almost always folds his overcards, how can you assume that? Why shouldn't he continue with some part of his overcards to float once, the board is super dry plus it's BTNvsBlinds. From what do you base that the guy folds 100% of his overcard range?
      Maybe I'm making bad assumptions and give players not enough credit or sometimes too much credit (that's a problem of mine I guess).

      With that bold part I wanted to say that a hand like AQ has much more combo's than a pair for ex. 66.