Generalizing double gutters

    • freebsdfag
      freebsdfag
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2011 Posts: 12
      Hey,

      Had a couple of double gutters in a session I just played -- I missed 1 of them because I was playing many tables. It slipped, and it is sad since the extra equity is usually enough to be aggressive against the right opponents. So I thought to myself:

      "Is there an easy way to generalizing double gutters on the flop, a method, so a quick sweep of the board shows if a double gutter is possible or not."

      I thought of this:

      Your holecards must be in succession with 1 card on the board and the other two must not be identical and have a difference of exactly 2 of that succession.

      Is it correct for all instances of double gutters on the flop?

      Excuse me if I come off somewhat daft ..
  • 5 replies
    • freebsdfag
      freebsdfag
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2011 Posts: 12
      immediately after posting I realize that my formulation is (the italic line) is not very strong. For "the other two": "(..) have a difference of exactly 2" it is not clear that the bigger of the two has to have a difference of 2 with the top part of the succesion and opposite for the lower of the two.. T_T
    • ExternalUseOnly
      ExternalUseOnly
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2010 Posts: 3,373
      Hi there freebsdfag

      You completely lost me there :D

      To be honest, after a while of playing you get pretty good at reading the board in a couple of seconds. Have you thought about cutting down the number of tables you play? Then maybe you wouldn't miss out on spots like this in the future. I mean we all miss things now and again but how often do you miss a spot like this? If it's regularly then i would consider dropping a table or 2. How many do you play now by the way?

      All the best
      Carl
    • freebsdfag
      freebsdfag
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2011 Posts: 12
      Thank you for the reply.

      You have a point, practice makes perfect.

      However, if an easily explained "method" can be made it could be used as guide on the site in the strategy section. I reviewed the "Mathematics of Poker" article and could not find the "double gutshot" in the chart, page 2, under 8 outs. In general, the material on the site is excellent and I assume that there must be interest in improving it if possible.

      Consider a couple of examples if you will:

      Example 1:
      Holecards: JT
      Flop: K-9-7 => Q or 8 makes the straight.
      =============================
      Example 2:
      Holecards: 86
      Flop: T-7-4 => 9 or 5 makes the straight.
      =============================

      In example 1, JT makes the succession JT9.
      The difference of 2 is then found/seen: "K (=13) - J (=11) = 2" and "9 - 7 = 2".

      In example 2, 86 makes the succession 876.
      The difference of 2 is then found/seen: "T (=10) - 8 = 2" and "6 - 4 = 2".

      The "method" -- at least in my silly mind -- proposes a set of patterns to search for. Which may or may not be what experience teaches you on a sub-conscious level. If newer players can find this method (or an improvement thereof) helpful I guess there would be some merit to it.

      I play ~8 NLHE 0.5/0.1 on PokerStars but I'm not tracked since I made the account before finding this site. I've then tried other ones, accumulated points and seen videos, but their bad software keeps me away. At least until I can play higher stakes (and less tables => less table selection in general).
    • ExternalUseOnly
      ExternalUseOnly
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2010 Posts: 3,373
      I kind of see what you are saying but the way i seem to do it automatically and subconsciously is when i see the flop my brain just reads 7-8-9-T-J-Q and in a second then takes away the cards i don't have, then telling me instantly what i need. To be honest this is the first time i've really thought about how i read a flop it usually just hits me straight away without thinking about it.

      Anyone else got any methods of how they quickly and accurately read a flop?
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,901
      • 03.07.2012, 23:37
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Tomaloc: 03.07.2012 23:39.
      i think you nailed it.
      i couldn't find a counterexample (or examples that didn't follow that, i may add) :D