BSS chart

    • cannell555
      cannell555
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      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      Hi guys I've just got pt3 and input 120k hands from the last 5-6 weeks. I have never (until today) looked at the BSS starting hand chart. I play BSS NL20 on titan, and my stats show 4.6bb/100. Is this good?

      Since looking at the SHC I realized I play looser and less aggressive. With stats of 17/4 (lol) What win rate and stats should playing to the SHC 100% achieve?

      My main problem is playing small PP in all positions, but PT3 show i'm winning with them. So I should keep playing that way, right? I also usually raise AQ from any position, which is wrong I guess.

      I've just played a short session and ended up -$5, but a guy hit a sick runner runner against me, we were allin on the flop. So I potentially lost $40 profit there. In 350 hands I only seen about 15 flops, of which I played 2 big hands.

      Should I carry on playing my way with 4.6bb/100, or play 100% BSS?
  • 23 replies
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
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      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      The SHC is only a small part of what's needed to play profitably, so just following it won't make you a winning player.
      It's designed as a base to have a good idea of what hands to play, but small (I insist on the "small") variations can be made later on, although raising less than half as many hands as "required" doesn't seem like a great modification ;)
      So yeah, I suggest you have another good look at the articles (and videos, which might be more interesting), and stick to the SHC. good luck :)
    • cannell555
      cannell555
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      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      My bet sizes and such pre-flop are spot on, its just I dont play to the TAG style. I think my post flop game is ok too. Its just that I wanted to know how profitable TAG is, if played correct. What do you mean later on? Is 2 years (about 3 million hands) experiance enough to then modify it?


      What i'm saying is I have altered the game to suit me. I haven't had any software for the last 2 months, and now I have. But in that 2 months i've altered my game alot, and been winning. But should I go back to TAG style or stay with my 4.6bb/100 (PT)? Is 4.6bb/100 good enough?

      Its only the last 2 months that I've been active on forums and talked about my game with people. Thats why I've made the alterations.

      Also I only play NL20 due to financial problems about 3 months ago, I used to play NL100.

      Stiev
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
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      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      I suggest to take the SHC as a basis and modify "later", that means with more experience on limits like Nl100/200.
      4.6BB/100 isn't bad. A very(!) good tag can reach 8 BB/100 on Nl20 imo.
      What's your samplesize?
    • cannell555
      cannell555
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      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      4.6bb/100 is over a 120k sample size.
    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
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      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      Oh and I forgot: Do mean PTBB or BB? 1 PTBB is one big bet and therefore 2 normal BB.

      Best regards,
      TribunCaesar
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
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      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      Originally posted by TribunCaesar
      I suggest to take the SHC as a basis and modify "later", that means with more experience on limits like Nl100/200.
      4.6BB/100 isn't bad. A very(!) good tag can reach 8 BB/100 on Nl20 imo.
      What's your samplesize?
      so this is unrealistic?? or do you mean 8ptbb/100?

      Anyway, these stats should be ok (according to better sh players then i am):

    • TribunCaesar
      TribunCaesar
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      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      Originally posted by helemaalnicks
      Originally posted by TribunCaesar
      I suggest to take the SHC as a basis and modify "later", that means with more experience on limits like Nl100/200.
      4.6BB/100 isn't bad. A very(!) good tag can reach 8 BB/100 on Nl20 imo.
      What's your samplesize?
      so this is unrealistic?? or do you mean 8ptbb/100?

      Anyway, these stats should be ok (according to better sh players then i am):

      If these are PTBB it's unrealistic to have such a winrate over 100k hands. 8 PTBB are imo possible for really good players on NL20 SH.
      Your stats are looking good.
      :)
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
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      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      its not PT, dont worry. Just 4$/100hands.
    • cannell555
      cannell555
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      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      Threads been hijacked, lol. I was playing off 4.6 bb/100.

      Since I've changed I'm playing off 3.74 ptbb/100, but I feel i'm playing better poker. I only have 6k hands playing strictly from the SHC, but my AA is in -$ due to sick bad beats, and i've been pretty card dead. I really prefer playing off the SHC, as i'm getting myself in less difficult positions.

      @ trib, You said a good TAG player can get 8bb/100, is that PTbb? Full ring?

      Mine is all FR btw, playing 10-12 tables.

      Edit I was 4.6bb/100 not 4.6ptbb.

      Stiev
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
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      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      Originally posted by cannell555
      Threads been hijacked, lol. I was playing off 4.6 bb/100.

      Since I've changed I'm playing off 3.74 ptbb/100, but I feel i'm playing better poker. I only have 6k hands playing strictly from the SHC, but my AA is in -$ due to sick bad beats, and i've been pretty card dead. I really prefer playing off the SHC, as i'm getting myself in less difficult positions.

      @ trib, You said a good TAG player can get 8bb/100, is that PTbb? Full ring?

      Mine is all FR btw, playing 10-12 tables.

      Edit I was 4.6bb/100 not 4.6ptbb.

      Stiev
      8PTBB/100 is possible for SH... friend of mine has 9ptbb/100 @ nl0.40eu @ unibet, 8 tabling. I have 8.5ptbb/100 9tabling sh @ nl25 @ stars. I think FR ~5ptbb should be possible on micro/low limits.
    • ratex
      ratex
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      Joined: 15.11.2007 Posts: 2,795
      I was looking for the SH silver chart, but I can't find it! o.O

      Anyone here could give me the link? :P


      CYA!
    • timukasr
      timukasr
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      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 1,820
      There isn't any but I made my own chart using article Tight aggressive Preflop Play for Intermediates . In that article I used the last page to make rather tight SHC with stats 15-16/10-11 but I think, for beginners, it is really great chart, because you don't get into too many tricky situations and you can learn to play looser step by step.

      You can find the chart here: Short Handed Starting Hand Chart

      Of course, the way you play preflop depends on you and how you are feeling comfortable to play. So you can make changes to the chart at any time.
    • ratex
      ratex
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      Joined: 15.11.2007 Posts: 2,795
      Excellent, timukasr! :D

      And what about that: http://pt.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/188/

      Can I use this??

      You said that there's no silver chart. But I was searching here on my computer, and I've found this chart:

      http://www.arquivoweb.net/arquivo.php?id=6408069

      Have you ever seen it? I can't read germany... What do you think?
    • timukasr
      timukasr
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      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 1,820
      Originally posted by ratex
      ...

      And what about that: http://pt.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/188/
      Can I use this??
      ...
      Ah yeah, I have forgot that. It's basically the same so it's good too.

      Originally posted by ratex
      ...
      You said that there's no silver chart. But I was searching here on my computer, and I've found this chart:

      http://www.arquivoweb.net/arquivo.php?id=6408069

      Have you ever seen it? I can't read germany... What do you think?
      ...
      I think that chart is for fixed limit players and for 5-max tables not 6-max and I think I have never seen it ;) .
    • ratex
      ratex
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      Joined: 15.11.2007 Posts: 2,795
      I used to play fixed limit. So it's probably for fixed limit, hehehe :D

      Did you use to play FR games before moving to SH?
      Any tipes for me?? ;)
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
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      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      8PTBB/100 is possible for SH... friend of mine has 9ptbb/100 @ nl0.40eu @ unibet, 8 tabling. I have 8.5ptbb/100 9tabling sh @ nl25 @ stars. I think FR ~5ptbb should be possible on micro/low limits.
      Looks very unlikely for those rates to be sustainable.
      I've played the worst fish already on higher limits and I feel that my current winrate of 11 big blinds per 100 after +/-60k hands on NL50 and NL100 combined isn't sustainable either. 8 big blinds seems more likely.
    • cannell555
      cannell555
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      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      11 Big blinds per 100, is 5.5 PTBB/100. So nick is 8.5 ptbb/100, which is actually 17 bb/100.

      so you say 11 big blinds per 100 isn't sustainable? of course it is. I know other people playing off 15-20 big blinds per 100.


      PTBB/100 doesn't stand for poker tracker big blinds, its big bets. which is 2 x big blinds
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
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      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      At the microlimits, 8 PTBB (16 BB) might be sustainable, but at the low limits NL50 through NL200 I believe a 5 PTBB (10 BB) is more than an excellent rate that even the better ones have problems sustaining for more than 50k hands.
    • timukasr
      timukasr
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      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 1,820
      Originally posted by ratex
      I used to play fixed limit. So it's probably for fixed limit, hehehe :D

      Did you use to play FR games before moving to SH?
      Any tipes for me?? ;)
      Yeah I played FR befor SH. You should be confident about playing SH, start with few tables and at the beginning play tight. Of course biggest + is if you read some articles, but in my case the SH videos were really helpful at the beginning so watch those (although they can be a bit too loose, undercover's video is a bit tighter than rest of SH videos. Of course you don't have to play tight if you feel comfortable more looser).
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