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[NL2-NL10] NL50 SSS- Freeplay flush draw all-in

    • ivanasrb1
      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 17
      Im still no good at implied odds, but I thought that this was right move (well, it payed up) but Im not that sure.Can some of the judges clarify my pot/implied odds hire? I was convinced that vilains will call my all in.

      Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

      UTG ($50)
      UTG+1 ($52.10)
      MP1 ($80)
      MP2 ($59.15)
      MP3 ($99.70)
      CO ($50)
      Button ($15)
      SB ($27.50)
      Hero ($10)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, K.
      3 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, SB completes, Hero checks.

      Flop: ($3) 3, 2, 9 (6 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets $3, CO folds, Button folds, SB raises to $27 (All-In), Hero calls $9.50 (All-In), MP2 folds, MP3 calls $24.

      Turn: ($31.50) A (3 players, 2 all-in)

      River: ($31.50) A (3 players, 2 all-in)

      Final Pot: $66.50

      Results in white below:
      SB has 3c 9s (two pair, aces and nines).
      Hero has 4h Kh (flush, ace high).
      MP3 has 7d 7h (two pair, aces and sevens).
  • 5 replies
    • DeKuip
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 10,995
      Implied odds is kinda irrelevant if you're moving all-in on the flop.
      But let's see (I'm not a judge or whatsoever, but will still give my input here):
      MP3 bets potsize and SB pushes all-in.
      So they both have a strong hand and you're beat now.
      However, you have a flush draw.
      Since you're all-in on the flop, you'll get to see two cards, means your odds are 2:1.

      Pot is $15.50 when you have the decision of calling here.
      Odds to call are 15.50:9.50 = 1.63:1

      So if you're the only one calling, you don't have the odds to go all-in with your flush draw.

      Also in the small text you said "I was convinced that vilains will call my all in.", however, it's not you going all-in here, but the SB.
      So you must be sure of MP3 calling the SB here.
      If you're still saying that you knew almost sure that he would, then pot odds will be:
      24.50:9.50 = 2.58:1

      So then you do have the odds, but it's tricky because you can never know for sure if he's gonna fold or call.

      I probably would have folded this hand, because with these big raises, they must be holding a big hand (especially SB when he limps, can hold ATC), in this case he had possible full house-draw.

      Besides that you don't have the nut flush here, I think that also changes it a bit, but I don't know what exactly :D
    • 098799
      Joined: 23.07.2007 Posts: 1,245
      When I was a young ( ;) ) player i got myself a chart: calling with draws. It points out what pot (impied) odds do you need with the assumed number of outs. With clean flush draw you get 9 outs and therefore you need pot odds of 1:4 to call. It means if the pot and villain's bet together are for times bigger than the amount you need to call (villain's bet), you call.

      In this case the borderline would be exactly at $1 bet with a $3 pot before. Or $1.5 if you have some caldcaller before you and so on.

      IF you still have some money in your stack and get lower pot odds than you need (i.e. 1:3 or sth) but you can assume to be betted again on the turn, you can lower your pot odds expectations a bit. Example: $3 in the pot, your oponents bets $2. You get 1:2.5 pot odds, hence it's a fold. BUT if you assume that your oponent will bet again on the turn (for example $3) you have 2:( 2+3+3) => 2:8 => 1:4 IMPLIED odds. This is only an assumption and you cannot ever say you're sure about it.

      But here you got like 9.5:15.5 pot odds and NO implieds cause you have no more stack left. 9.5:15.5 means merely 1:1.5 and it's a clear fold in such a spot since you have no additional fold equity. If you assume to be called by mp3 (which is not always right) you get 9.5:22 => more than 1:2 but still not enough.

      And one another thing - these calculations do not apply strictly if you're the one moving all-in, because then you can assume to have some fold equity that might be enough to cover the leak in pot odds.

      Am I clear and is there anything else I can help with?
    • aciddrop
      Joined: 08.10.2006 Posts: 1,519
      If you are getting all in on the flop, and the player behind will call as well, then all you need is 1:2, because flop to river, that is the odds you need to cover your chances, which are 35%.
    • 098799
      Joined: 23.07.2007 Posts: 1,245
      Right. Counted only one card. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

      And are we to assume mp3's call? I don't think so. I'm afraid it's still a fold that's mathematically correct action in the hand above.
    • aciddrop
      Joined: 08.10.2006 Posts: 1,519
      I agree with that. We are guaranteed only just over 1:1.6, so can't push, because we don't KNOW that we will get the extra money from behind. Plus, our flush is only second nuts, so not even a definite win if we make it.