Zoom strategy?

    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      Hey guys, would someone who's crushing zoom be willing to add me as a friend or exchange skype with me and help me improve? :f_love:

      Or write it here for everyone to see?

      I really like this fast-moving product, it's just I could use some insights into many zoom-related things (opening, bet sizing, stealing, re-stealing, 3betting..)..

      I do have some fairy good BSS knowledge, but want to adapt to zoom as best as possible..

      Anyone?
  • 17 replies
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      up to NL10 there is no need to stack off preflop with less than KK, ever. :f_biggrin:
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      Hey Tomaloc, open up a bit.. Share your wisdom with me :) =)
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Hi, eXtremeACE

      We have recently had similar discussions.

      Perhaps you'll find what you're looking for in one of these threads:
      Zoom strategy
      opinions about zoom
      Difficulty of zoom.
      Zoom poker Blind defence/ C-bet
      Zoom is just strange!
      Do I suck at Zoom?
      pair vs pair zoom
      30k hands in zoom
      FR vs SH Zoom
      NL10 Zoom 4tabling tips

      That should keep you going for a bit.
      At the top of each forum page are three grey buttons:
      Your Profile
      Search
      Favorites

      To get the above list, I clicked Search, then Entered
      Zoom
      In the keyword box,
      then chose "Search in subjects"
      I then select the "No Limit", "General Poker Discussion" and "PokerStars" forums.

      There were lots more than what I posted above.

      Go for it.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      there may or may not be some wisdom in my blog. :f_biggrin:

      the next thing i'd advice is to color code people. mark the regs, the confirmed fish and the people who have a nonsensical stack size (they often turn to be fish, even if tight fish due to zoom), after a while you can even do some table selection. :f_biggrin:
      you can expand on that but should be a good start.
    • dodolasaumure
      dodolasaumure
      Basic
      Joined: 08.07.2012 Posts: 10
      You don't need any specific strategy against fish obviously, but against regs you can open wider on the button because most of regulars tend to auto fold their hands, especially on the small blind.
      Some of them also do it for the big blind, so you need to note who does this, and against them steal more blind versus blind.
      Zoom is full of nits, so you do not need to play too lose or they will rip you off! If you got questions, you can MP me, I also offer coaching/staking, if you are a winner :P
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      Hey thanks for tips guys!

      VorpalF2F, yeah I do feel like an idiot now, thanks :) but seriously, I don't know why I didn't search for zoom before posting.. Mostly because it links to blogs, or specific zoom hands, and I were more interested in general opinion.. But thanks for those links, helped a lot!

      What about having broadways in blinds and someone from MP/LATE open-raises? Should we be leaning toward flatting/3betting, or just folding? And yeah, I know that it's villain specific, but can someone share your through process when deciding?

      Like, check his 3bet/fold, 4bet, his foldtocbet, and what are good value of those stats to make me go more for a 3bet, rather than a fold... etc?

      Hope I'm not asking much..
      Thanks
    • dodolasaumure
      dodolasaumure
      Basic
      Joined: 08.07.2012 Posts: 10
      What about having broadways in blinds and someone from MP/LATE open-raises? Should we be leaning toward flatting/3betting, or just folding? And yeah, I know that it's villain specific, but can someone share your through process when deciding?

      Yes it's vilain specific, it depends a lot on his PFR %. Also it depends a lot if you are in SB or BB, you can flat more easily on BB than SB, because if you flat on the SB, the BB will have a cheap price to pay and you will play a multiway pot OOP which is never good.
      My 3-bet % is higher on the SB for this reason.
      Generally I don't cold call much my broadway on the SB (hand like KTo QJo QTo), I call them more on the BB but still fold them sometimes, and I 3b them from the SB depending if the vilain is loose in late (45%+ open in the BU, 35% in the CO). But be careful of your image and metagame with the vilain.

      Hope it helps!
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      Originally posted by dodolasaumure
      What about having broadways in blinds and someone from MP/LATE open-raises? Should we be leaning toward flatting/3betting, or just folding? And yeah, I know that it's villain specific, but can someone share your through process when deciding?

      Yes it's vilain specific, it depends a lot on his PFR %. Also it depends a lot if you are in SB or BB, you can flat more easily on BB than SB, because if you flat on the SB, the BB will have a cheap price to pay and you will play a multiway pot OOP which is never good.
      My 3-bet % is higher on the SB for this reason.
      Generally I don't cold call much my broadway on the SB (hand like KTo QJo QTo), I call them more on the BB but still fold them sometimes, and I 3b them from the SB depending if the vilain is loose in late (45%+ open in the BU, 35% in the CO). But be careful of your image and metagame with the vilain.

      Hope it helps!
      Oh it helps a lot, I was looking for something like that.. I need to start working on that, I think cold calling OOP is something I do have a problem with.. Either I don't do it and I lose value that way, or I do it wrongly and still lose value.. :/ But it's daily improvement that matters, I would assume.. :)

      :f_cool:
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by Tomaloc
      up to NL10 there is no need to stack off preflop with less than KK, ever. :f_biggrin:
      +1, so true, almost no one 3bets light and you can make a note on those who do to adjust to them. Today I was calling a lot of short stacks (50bb and less) and even they were constantly coolering my QQ/JJ/AKs which are usually ahead against the small stacks, I look at the Avg VPIP and its only at 10% for that session of ZOOMers :f_eek:

      The desperation shoves of about 25bb or less I like to call with TT+, AQ+ depending on how many people yet to act etc.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      If you are playing overpairs TT-QQ be vary wary of large flop bets -- esp donks -- on dry boards.

      I can't count the times I took tens into kings, jacks into queens etc.
      A lot depends on relative stack sizes, and history of villain, though.
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      If you are playing overpairs TT-QQ be vary wary of large flop bets -- esp donks -- on dry boards.

      I can't count the times I took tens into kings, jacks into queens etc.
      A lot depends on relative stack sizes, and history of villain, though.
      Hmm, well I'm more of the nit in my true nature so I usually play TT-QQ for setvalue, but I cbet ofcourse even if I don't hit my set 12% of times..

      By the way, these are the situations I have the most problem with as I described earlier..

      Hand 1:


      Hand 2:


      Are they just quick fold in those spots? Second hand looks like it, about first I'm not too sure, a villain is unknown..

      Best regards..
    • Aerox232
      Aerox232
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2011 Posts: 422
      if you have question about zoom Nl2-nl10 you can add me on skype. [Edited by VorpalF2F. As eXtremeACE mentioned, for safety reasons we recommend people not put contact info in posts]
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      Aerox232, added you! Btw erase your skype id, it's I think against PS.com policy to write it out like that.. :/
      I think it's against spam, that's why they suggests us to use Community Tools for that kind of things. :f_thumbsup:
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      i fold both. :f_biggrin:

      1st hand guy even opens 5x, and you are out of position. just fold. :f_biggrin:
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by Tomaloc
      i fold both. :f_biggrin:

      1st hand guy even opens 5x, and you are out of position. just fold. :f_biggrin:
      This, aaaaaaand even if you are ahead preflop, 67% of the time you miss the flop and check/fold his cbet. Its just not a profitable spot.
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      hmm these are interesting spots but as already said, you are OOP postflop and that is just crappy. you need to ask yourself what happens if i 3bet? how does my hand play vs a 4bet by him? what about a call? ask what range he will 4bet, call and fold. then what happens if you flat call? well you are now OOP on the flop without initiative - that sucks. you hit top pair good kicker, play WA/WB and then realise you are outkicked by AK or something.

      if he opens wide and calls 3bets really light and plays fit/fold postflop then i guess you can 3bet, but since lots of people are nitty - especially in fullring - then it's an wasy fold.

      if villain is unknown just wait for a better spot - no need to get yourself into marginal situations when they can be avoided. a lot of the time you save money by folding :)
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      Originally posted by DrDunne
      hmm these are interesting spots but as already said, you are OOP postflop and that is just crappy. you need to ask yourself what happens if i 3bet? how does my hand play vs a 4bet by him? what about a call? ask what range he will 4bet, call and fold. then what happens if you flat call? well you are now OOP on the flop without initiative - that sucks. you hit top pair good kicker, play WA/WB and then realise you are outkicked by AK or something.

      if he opens wide and calls 3bets really light and plays fit/fold postflop then i guess you can 3bet, but since lots of people are nitty - especially in fullring - then it's an wasy fold.

      if villain is unknown just wait for a better spot - no need to get yourself into marginal situations when they can be avoided. a lot of the time you save money by folding :)
      Yeah, now that you put it that way, against a solid TAG, playing broadways in blinds seems pretty hard, and not that profitable.. :/ The problem is, the sample size I have on most players in zoom so far is pretty small, like 0-200 hands at most, and therefore I don't have a good fold-to-3bet stat, let alone 4bet.. :/

      I guess I'll just steer away from playing in those kinds of spots until I get more experience under my belt..

      Thanks for an opinions, keep them coming.. :heart: