Playing deep

  • 7 replies
    • Ribbo
      Ribbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 6,157
      My best advice is "Don't Do It".

      My second best advice is "position, position, position"

      My third best advice is if a good player has position on you and is also deep stacked, then leave, irrespective of whether there is a fish in the game.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Well yeah, now I play so that I leave whenever I get >150bb... but you have to learn eventually I suppose, can't postpone it forever?
    • Ribbo
      Ribbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 6,157
      Originally posted by Schnitzelfisch
      Well yeah, now I play so that I leave whenever I get >150bb... but you have to learn eventually I suppose, can't postpone it forever?
      When you play poker, your goal is to win money, not be the best poker player that ever liver. Play in games that suit your style. I don't play tournaments because I have no interest in learning everything about tournament poker. I play in games where I can make money. Just do the same and when situations occur that make you uncomfortable, just leave.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      That's definitely true for some people, but not for everyone. Some people might just care about winning money, whereas other people care about challenges, improving themselves, seeking knowledge or perhaps even monetizing through other means like writing a book, private coachings, live coachings, etc.

      And how would you feel if for example a coach wouldn't know how to play deep because he never learned it because he didn't need to to be able to win money. Also, winning money is one thing while maximizing winrate is another thing.

      If you never go out of your comfort zone, you can never improve. It's like that with anything in life.

      If we take playing deep for example, one of my main concerns is that if I don't know how to do it and run hot, I will soon run out of tables to play at. This has happened to me before even on PLO25 on stars (would probably happen way more on higher limits), late at night. When I win a couple of BI on a couple of tables and start avoiding those tables, I soon run out of decent tables to play at as most fish are on those tables which I am avoiding. So I cannot see maximizing value like this.

      Another example is if some really bad player has a big stack. If you leave immediately you can win that 1BI from him. But if you stayed, you could probably find a spot where you're all in and 80% favourite playing 300bb deep and you can win 3 more stacks from him, which can increase your winrate greatly.

      Also, if you ever play live, you need to know a thing or two about playing deep.

      So I want to learn how to play deep while the mistakes are reasonably cheap, instead of learning it on PLO200 when I will need to and making way more costly mistakes - does that not make sense?

      I'm really interested how should my play change when playing deep. I know that effective stacks are still important, that I generally don't want to get into fights with regulars who are deep, that position is extremely important and that I shouldn't blindly shove AAxx preflop but call more. Should I play tighter or looser therefore?

      I would appreciate it if you could at least link me to an article or video where I could get more information on this, or even a book after all.

      -SF
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      When stacks are deeper, it usually means high SPR situations. And then the leverage is more important. Leverage is the threat of future bets. With 100bb deeps, you can commit yourself usually on flop or turn. So a lot of times there aren't any big decision for the river. Like if you have a set, and you check-raise on flop or turn. Now you don't have to worry about the river. But when playing deeper, you can't commit yourself on flop or turn that often. Instead of 2 street poker you have to play 3 street poker. Now what does this change in our game?

      First thing to come in mind is that as you can't commit yourself that easily, you can't open your hand face up. If you check-raise only sets, but after that you will have 4 pot sized bets left, it is pretty profitable for villain to either call with a draw (if you overplay that set when the draw hits) or float you (if you fold whenever a scare card hits).

      With deeper stacks and somewhat aggressive table, you really need to plan your hands ahead. Otherwise you fill find yourself in ugly spots where you have marginal hand, big pot and a lot of chips behind you.

      Against passive calling stations nothing changes. Against tight nits you can bluff a lot more as you will have big ammo for the river. Against aggros your variance goes through the roof and you really need to be able to deal with that if you play with them.

      And as Ribbo said, it's all about position, position and position. Deep and oop is something you don't ever want to be, unless the other guy is passive calling station.
    • Riverdiver
      Riverdiver
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2012 Posts: 1,126
      How about when you play on deep tables where the minimum buy in is 100bb
    • ChiTheoK0To
      ChiTheoK0To
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.12.2010 Posts: 126
      RiverD, I think BI with 100 is most suitable. Think a bout Raise and got reraised, you can't feel comfortable if there is only 60 BB and got 10 BB shipped in.

      but as we could see with deep and playing with not a fish, that is more varian, and hard to know what we should decide. with 100BB normaly you should go for It with 2nd straight. what happen If you have 6778 and flop 456, and river come 8, and got reraise Pot at river, so hard with deep right. but we don't want to small our winning without bet our nut straight at flop and turn.

      atm, Normally I join 100 bb, left after > 200 atm. some fish table could make me stay more for a while, of course position always important like Ribbo said.
      but some ppl could play while they are chip leader, that is their style, I haven't got that skill. but trust me, when you are chipleader, no different between you got 200BI or 1000 BI.