[NL20-NL50] NL50 FR AQ in MP

    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem
      7 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG ($50) 100bb
      UTG+1 ($74.42) 149bb
      Hero (MP) ($52.08) 104bb
      CO ($51.08) 102bb
      BTN ($127.32) 255bb
      SB ($69.83) 140bb
      BB ($49.75) 100bb

      Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 7 players) Hero is MP A:diamond: Q:diamond:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, CO calls $1.50, 1 fold, SB calls $1.25, BB calls $1

      Flop: 6:diamond: 9:spade: A:heart: ($6, 4 players)
      SB bets $1.50, BB calls $1.50, Hero raises to $6, CO calls $6, SB folds, BB folds

      Turn: 3:heart: ($21, 2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks

      River: 10:club: ($21, 2 players)
      Hero bets $12, CO goes all-in $43.58, Hero folds

      Final Pot: $76.58

      Stats in 8.7k hands
      16/12/3.3/60/31/79
      60/64/25/2.7

      Check turn and check-fold river right, because I beat only AJ now :( ? Should I bet turn? These nits freak me out, once they call it's pretty much that narrow range you don't want them to have.
  • 12 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello BadeaCelRau,

      Why would you raise the flop and then even Check the turn? Just doesn't make sense. Did you turn your hand into bluff or what? At the best we could just Call the flop and reevaluate the further action to avoid isolating against strong hands.

      As played doesn't make sense to Bet the turn, can't see many worse hands paying us on the river if you decided to Check the turn then do the same on the river.

      Best Regards.
    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      Someone else bet, a fish. The regular cold called my pot bet and the fish folded. Then I checked because I think I'm facing a range of 66,99,A6,A9, AT and AJ. Not many hands to draw value from and he will probably check behind the likes of AJ and AT from which I want to draw value later. The hand I forgot while playing was 78.

      Then he takes forever to think and checks behind turn. I think he would bet the made hands so I can exclude 66,99, A6, A9. And if he is really bad and wants to slowplay them, well I still had to give him a bet anyway. So I went for a bet on the river against what remains AJ and AT but I forgot 78. It depends on how many 78 and AT he has, if only the suited ones then I'm still ahead ^^
      Is my analysis wrong?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      So, you are raising the flop as bluff? :) Why not play way ahead/behind?
    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      I'm value betting the fish :) , actually the 2 fishes, there are 3 other people in the pot. I can't let 3 people see the cards for free ... ..... ?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by BadeaCelRau
      I'm value betting the fish :) , actually the 2 fishes, there are 3 other people in the pot. I can't let 3 people see the cards for free ... ..... ?
      You are rather building up the pot and no place where you should do, even if he is a fish it doesn't mean that he can't have a hand. It's very thin raise there and if you do raise then as I asked earlier "why ain't ya betting the turn for value?". Just no logic at all in that play.
    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      I didn't overbet, just put a normal bet in, so I can't complain later that they sucked out with a 3-outer. I bet and expect CO to fold almost all the time, then I can value bet my two fishes in sb and bb. Of course if I had A4 i'd just call it but Q is too good kicker in my opinion.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by BadeaCelRau
      I didn't overbet, just put a normal bet in, so I can't complain later that they sucked out with a 3-outer. I bet and expect CO to fold almost all the time, then I can value bet my two fishes in sb and bb. Of course if I had A4 i'd just call it but Q is too good kicker in my opinion.
      Umm, what do you mean I didn't overbet?
    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      The pot is 6$. The fish donked 1.5$. How can I let everyone see the turn for 1.5$? Their 6 cards combined have so much equity against me. I bet slightly below pot so the 2 guys who have to call behind me don't get super good odds with something 'extreme' like 58
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by BadeaCelRau
      The pot is 6$. The fish donked 1.5$. How can I let everyone see the turn for 1.5$? Their 6 cards combined have so much equity against me. I bet slightly below pot so the 2 guys who have to call behind me don't get super good odds with something 'extreme' like 58
      And why not? :) There ain't even that many draws from you should be scared and you are just building up the pot in nowhere spot. And once again I am asking you, why do you Raise the flop for value but you don't Bet the turn? Do you really plan to Check/Fold the turn?
    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      I already answered your question and you know better than me :D . I'm raising for value against the 2 fish and for some protection against all of them :) . Against the reg it's not bluff, I can't bluff him from stronger hands but I expect he will fold around 80% of the time, probably. Regarding the second question, yes I think I will check-fold because he is too nitty. He knows I have at least a big A once I bet big on that board so he wouldn't bet his lower kickers and also he wouldn't bet as a bluff.

      EDIT:
      OK I thought more about the spot. They can't have that many outs, mostly 2 or 3 but do I really want to lose the initiative in the hand? What if CO the reg decides to raise on the flop? Can't he do that with AJ? I think he can. What if one of the fishes will donk strong on a somewhat dangerous card like 10 or an 8? Even on a 3 his two pairs will be so concealed. What if the turn brings a flushdraw, like it did and a fish leads again moderately? Do I call with everyone around me again or do I raise?
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Some discussion here :P
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Can't he do that with AJ? I think he can.

      Don't you think he would be turning his hand into bluff then? :D At least I don't see myself raising in those spots unless I turn it into bluff.

      What if one of the fishes will donk strong on a somewhat dangerous card like 10 or an 8? Even on a 3 his two pairs will be so concealed.

      If fish donks strong then we can easily lay down the hand cause it's very likely that we are behind? Why would you want to invest any more money into it?

      What if the turn brings a flushdraw, like it did and a fish leads again moderately? Do I call with everyone around me again or do I raise?

      Why would you want to raise, play the hand just way ahead/behind and wont even have to invest any more money into it. Why would you want to go broke cause if you raising the turn then you have invest big amount of your stack already and would be kinda committed.

      As you had a plan to Check/Fold it on the turn being OOP or whatever the plan was, why do you Bet the river, from what do you get called which is worse? Even 78 got there, turning your hand into bluff? Although the amount doesn't make sense.