[NL20-NL50] NL50SH KQo in 3b pot OOP

    • PoincaresConjecture
      PoincaresConjecture
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2011 Posts: 115
      PokerStars - €0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      BB: €51.00
      UTG: €52.08
      CO: €18.75
      BTN: €53.08
      Hero (SB): €50.00

      Hero posts SB €0.25, BB posts BB €0.50

      Pre Flop: (€0.75) Hero has Q:club: K:heart:

      fold, fold, BTN raises to €1.50, Hero raises to €5.00, fold, BTN calls €3.50

      Flop: (€10.50, 2 players) T:diamond: 7:spade: 2:diamond:
      Hero bets €5.30, BTN calls €5.30

      Turn: (€21.10, 2 players) K:diamond:
      Hero bets €11.50, BTN calls €11.50

      River: (€44.10, 2 players) 4:club:
      Hero checks, BTN checks

      pre: BTN was a little fishy player, so i can 3b for thin value i think + the BB was 25/20/11 3b active reg and i don't want to get squeezed.

      flop: c/f is certainly a possiblity, but i think he can fold some weak A highs, broadways and SC's + i can make him fold small PP on later streets + i have BD str8 draw and 2 overs

      turn: i bet for value vs Tx and FD

      river: any value here in shoving?

      best regards
  • 6 replies
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      If villain is super-passive you can probably fire a small bet on the river. I wouldn't shove though - you are targetting Tx, JJ, QQ, KJ etc so personally I wouldn't bet more than half pot, max.

      Assuming villain is a little more aggressive I probably prefer a check-call line on river. There are plenty of busted draws in villains range - straight draws, turned 1-card diamond draws etc. I think he has a wider range of worse hands that will bet this river than will call if he is aggressive enough.

      As you say, cbetting the flop isn't mandatory. Might even be a leak vs some fish depending on your plans for later streets.
    • PoincaresConjecture
      PoincaresConjecture
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2011 Posts: 115
      Originally posted by w34z3l
      If villain is super-passive you can probably fire a small bet on the river. I wouldn't shove though - you are targetting Tx, JJ, QQ, KJ etc so personally I wouldn't bet more than half pot, max.

      Assuming villain is a little more aggressive I probably prefer a check-call line on river. There are plenty of busted draws in villains range - straight draws, turned 1-card diamond draws etc. I think he has a wider range of worse hands that will bet this river than will call if he is aggressive enough.

      As you say, cbetting the flop isn't mandatory. Might even be a leak vs some fish depending on your plans for later streets.
      one and done would certainly be a leak here, but i was planning on barreling certain turns for sure. don't you think betting small OTR looks even stronger than shoving? i mean were obv never bluffing with 1/2 pot bet + he can't really bluff-shove over such a bet because of the remaining stack sizes?
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      You´re not really going to c/f river and to me it is more value shoving or betting 22€ (although it doesn´t really matter that much) than c/c river.
      Also I think it is quite good board where to c/rai turn or if you barrel turn then b/c 14$ may also be better to prepare half pot river shove
    • PoincaresConjecture
      PoincaresConjecture
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2011 Posts: 115
      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      You´re not really going to c/f river and to me it is more value shoving or betting 22€ (although it doesn´t really matter that much) than c/c river.
      Also I think it is quite good board where to c/rai turn or if you barrel turn then b/c 14$ may also be better to prepare half pot river shove
      hi thanks for your answer.

      could you explain a little deeper, why this is a good board to c/rai on the turn and why betting bigger OTT to have 1/2 pot shove OTR is better, then betting smaller OTT?

      best regards
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Originally posted by PoincaresConjecture
      don't you think betting small OTR looks even stronger than shoving? i mean were obv never bluffing with 1/2 pot bet + he can't really bluff-shove over such a bet because of the remaining stack sizes?
      Yup, it's possible. However - If this guy is a fish like you say, I don't imagine he's gonna be sitting there thinking "man, he's so polarised right now, I call with my 7x".

      I think more likely he just gonna call if he likes the price and fold if he doesn't. Against better players maybe you can shove trying to polarise your range - but less useful vs a fish imo.

      And I agree, he's not bluff-shoving over 1/2 pot most of the time. He's not value-shoving worse either most likely. You could seriously consider folding to a shove - although you wouldn't need to be correct very often to make the call given the price, so if you thought he might spazz on the river, calling wouldn't be ridiculous either.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello PoincaresConjecture,

      Flop: Against a fish and not even having any backdoor FDs I'd rather be just Check/Folding the flop, doubt that we going to have much fold equity here and maybe not even vs Ace high.

      As played
      Turn: Don't really see why we should be Check/Raising here, doesn't really make sense vs a fish. What are we trying to achieve with it? Rather just Bet and get value from his pairs/PPx and maybe even protect from 1card FD.
      River: Doubt that he will have many bluffs in his range here for Check/Call. We are either Betting it ourselves or just Check/Folding it and I don't even mind Check/Folding unless I assume he is super-fishy and loose and may even hero-call which would bring me to the small Bet, maybe like $14 to invite him to Call with Tx/JJ/QQ.

      Best Regards.