[NL20-NL50] NL50 SH cbetting BU vs BB

    • PoincaresConjecture
      PoincaresConjecture
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2011 Posts: 115
      PokerStars - €0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      SB: €50.25
      BB: €74.28
      UTG: €52.03
      CO: €44.31
      Hero (BTN): €70.07

      SB posts SB €0.25, BB posts BB €0.50

      Pre Flop: (€0.75) Hero has Q:diamond: 5:heart:

      fold, fold, Hero raises to €1.25, SB calls €1.00, fold

      Flop: (€3.00, 2 players) 6:spade: 4:diamond: 6:diamond:
      SB checks, Hero bets €2.14, fold

      standard cbet vs 23/20 80% Fold BB to steal Reg?
  • 7 replies
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      This play is very villain dependant - there are also levels involved. In general I'd not cbet here - that's not to say it's necessarily bad either.

      Most villains will not fold any PP here. If villain is the type that is just going to snap-fold AQ/KQ/AJ etc a cbet may still be fine anyway.

      If villain is going to call (or c/r bluff) with a decent amount of high card hands knowing your button opening-range probably hasn't hit this flop.....suddenly a cbet is not so great. It likely won't be profitable in a vacuum - but given that you have connected vaguely you might be able to make the overall situation profitable if you were to barrel diamonds, 7, 3 etc, maybe an A or K.

      It's very villain dependant. Some higher level thinkers may give you more credit cbetting this board since they don't expect you to cbet it light. In general though, cbet is just not necessary here.
    • PoincaresConjecture
      PoincaresConjecture
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2011 Posts: 115
      Originally posted by w34z3l
      This play is very villain dependant - there are also levels involved. In general I'd not cbet here - that's not to say it's necessarily bad either.

      Most villains will not fold any PP here. If villain is the type that is just going to snap-fold AQ/KQ/AJ etc a cbet may still be fine anyway.

      If villain is going to call (or c/r bluff) with a decent amount of high card hands knowing your button opening-range probably hasn't hit this flop.....suddenly a cbet is not so great. It likely won't be profitable in a vacuum - but given that you have connected vaguely you might be able to make the overall situation profitable if you were to barrel diamonds, 7, 3 etc, maybe an A or K.

      It's very villain dependant. Some higher level thinkers may give you more credit cbetting this board since they don't expect you to cbet it light. In general though, cbet is just not necessary here.
      i absolutely agree. i also think that i won't get floated on that board so often, considering that its not ideal to cbet because of its connectedness thus my cbet will get more credit.

      the question i have is: can i or villain rep this board better, considering i opened for 2.5 BB and on the other hand villain's fold to steal is 80%+?

      btw. i think we should never barrel an A on the turn, because villain can have an ace very easily and we can't really rep an A, because we would check A high back a lot on the flop, u agree?
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      It is very hard him doing most of his range than c/c.
      Very few people would call there 6x or 4x hands and you can rep any 6x and overpairs, so unless he is really going to c/r flop for value smt like 77/88 I think it most of the times goes c/c or c/f and you can always barrel turn/river and overbet at some points.
    • PoincaresConjecture
      PoincaresConjecture
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2011 Posts: 115
      Originally posted by Kaitz20
      It is very hard him doing most of his range than c/c.
      Very few people would call there 6x or 4x hands and you can rep any 6x and overpairs, so unless he is really going to c/r flop for value smt like 77/88 I think it most of the times goes c/c or c/f and you can always barrel turn/river and overbet at some points.
      thanks for your reply, i totally agree.

      best regards
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Originally posted by PoincaresConjecture
      btw. i think we should never barrel an A on the turn, because villain can have an ace very easily and we can't really rep an A, because we would check A high back a lot on the flop, u agree?
      A fair point - really depends on villain. Not sure I'd give most players credit for realising I have less aces in my cbetting range. In my experience at these stakes people let you rep scare cards whether they are in your range or not. I probably would feel comfortable barrelling an Ace turn - but then, I possibly wouldn't cbet in the first place.

      It's not impossible you can have Aces either, weaker players will monkey cbet AT-AK even at these stakes regardless of flop texture. It's true villain may have Ax hands in his range but he also has a bunch of other hands that don't like an Ace turn.

      The main point was that against certain opponents the cbet may not be profitable in isolation - double-barrelling good cards might be required to make the overall exchange +EV. There is no reason why you would specifically need to barrel an Ace though, so don't do it if you feel you have a good reason not to.

      Originally posted by PoincaresConjecture
      the question i have is: can i or villain rep this board better, considering i opened for 2.5 BB and on the other hand villain's fold to steal is 80%+?
      I think it's pretty clear villain has a stronger range than you on the flop. He doesn't necessarily know that though. You also have position and can put pressure on villain.
    • PoincaresConjecture
      PoincaresConjecture
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2011 Posts: 115
      Originally posted by w34z3l
      Originally posted by PoincaresConjecture
      btw. i think we should never barrel an A on the turn, because villain can have an ace very easily and we can't really rep an A, because we would check A high back a lot on the flop, u agree?
      A fair point - really depends on villain. Not sure I'd give most players credit for realising I have less aces in my cbetting range. In my experience at these stakes people let you rep scare cards whether they are in your range or not. I probably would feel comfortable barrelling an Ace turn - but then, I possibly wouldn't cbet in the first place.

      It's not impossible you can have Aces either, weaker players will monkey cbet AT-AK even at these stakes regardless of flop texture. It's true villain may have Ax hands in his range but he also has a bunch of other hands that don't like an Ace turn.

      The main point was that against certain opponents the cbet may not be profitable in isolation - double-barrelling good cards might be required to make the overall exchange +EV. There is no reason why you would specifically need to barrel an Ace though, so don't do it if you feel you have a good reason not to.

      Originally posted by PoincaresConjecture
      the question i have is: can i or villain rep this board better, considering i opened for 2.5 BB and on the other hand villain's fold to steal is 80%+?
      I think it's pretty clear villain has a stronger range than you on the flop. He doesn't necessarily know that though. You also have position and can put pressure on villain.
      hey, thanks for your thoughts again.
      obviously he does have a stronger range, the question is however how it connects with this board. i don't know if he's defending something like 76s, 75s or 86s passively. so he has lots of broadways and pairs i guess. broadways, that didn't connect will fold the flop. also if he c/calls i think his range is good A highs and pp almost exclusively which allows me to rep upcoming cards that connect the board further better then him.

      best regards

      best regards
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello PoincaresConjecture,

      The CB purpose isn't here only to gain fold equity but you have tons of backdoors which could improve your hand. The CB also gains you a free card for the river very often while we could be Checking behind it. Nice hand!

      Best Regards.