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Small PP bet or limp Preflop?

    • canniballsy
      Joined: 22.04.2012 Posts: 119
      I stumbled across the basic quiz and was taking them for fun!
      One question asked me what would I do with 22 UTG preflop(in a 6handed table)
      ..should I limp, fold or bet?
      Well I ticked limp and got a 0 :( I shouldve bet...
      but I cross checked with the starting preflop handschart from the basic learning strategy lessons, I found out that from MPs, you limp rather than raise.
      Even tho that lesson was for FR table, but if you discard 4 sits, you are sitting in the UTG (which is really a MP in a FR table). So, what am I supposed to get from the contradictory statements. the strategy asks to limp, the quiz asks to bet.
  • 7 replies
    • RasTweet
      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      Hi Canniballsy!

      I'm not a professional poker player but here I go.

      In a shorthanded game you just never limp. Limping is very weak and very exploitable. When playing nl2 FR it's not a problem to limp those small pp, but in shorthanded it's just not profitable anymore.

      I see also found the starting hands chart for the full ring tables. In shorthanded games though we don't use that starting hands chart anymore, but rather a open raising chart.

      You can find the starting hands chart in this article.

      You might find this article interesting as well. It's about the short handed theory.

      Thats it in a nutshell, but I'm sure more people will reply and give you tons of reasons not to open limp!

      Best of luck on the tables!

    • DoigteurFou
      Joined: 16.08.2007 Posts: 1,529
      Openlimping in SH is a poor idea if you don't know what you are doing.
      Think about it:
      you can get isolated by someone who is in position and you will fold very often to a Cbet.
      if everyone folds, you will have a very hard to play hand vs the big blind who has a range of 100% (okay, less since he might raise some hands, but you have the idea).

      Both these situations are EV-.
    • GraemeDR
      Joined: 19.01.2011 Posts: 156
      If I'm entering a pot per flop it's always for a raise. Always. If you're playing a small pocket pair you're only playing to flop a set, or take the pot down with a Cbet. If ypu raise you narrow your opponents range, so can make a better informed decision on whether to Cbet or not. Plus if you raise you have the initiative so could make opponent fold with a Cbet. If you haven't raised pre flop you've taken the Cbet put of your arsenal, so of you don't hit your set you've wasted money.

      Raise it up. Give yourself a chance to take the pot even if you don't hit. Give your opponent a chance to fold.
    • bennisboy
      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      Raisy Daisy!

      Aggression is key in 6max. You're playing from UTG, you want to charge people to play against you with position.

      Also, implied odds are lower in 6max due to the wider hand range, so people are likely to play more marginal hands. Limping PPs in FR is for the implied odds, knowing that if you hit a set against the tighter range of FR players, you're more likely to be able to get stacks in. The looser range in 6max reduces these odds. This means you aren't playing so much for the implied odds, but still a PP is too good to fold, so you raise it up
    • mbml
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,779
      We raise preflop for a few reasons
      -For Value
      -To Steal the Blinds
      -To Gain the Initiative
      -For Isolation Purposes

      In a 6 max game, the advantages of raising will almost always outweight that of limping.

      However, in a 9 handed game, you may not be able to achieve objectives 2/3/4 especially if you are in early position. With so many players left to act behind you, it is likely that some of them will stick around.

      -Thus you can't steal the blinds
      -Having the initiative in a 3 or 4way pot is useless since you can't really cbet into multiple people
      -And you cannot isolate

      Starting hand chart says limp from MP but thats just a beginner's chart. Never ever limp in a FR game if you are in MP or later. There might be some arguments for limping in EP but i think this is mostly suitable for live games, and maybe microstakes online. But as you approach NL10 or higher you should probably just raise or fold from every position.
    • JackxxRatt
      Joined: 18.07.2007 Posts: 119
      You're comparing SH v FR, there was nothing contradictory as you're talking about 2 different game types and strategies.

      In theory, open limping 22 shouldn't be deemed good play in SH or FR. There is a case however for limping small PPs on FR tables in the micros where players are less observant. As you move up the limits you can expect players to be more observant. Opening hands like 22 in higher limits should become raise or fold, always. Same for SH tables regardless the limit.
    • jonnyjm
      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      Why limp at all? Because it means you've gotta have the best hand to win the moniez. Raising/Betting gives you more than one way to win the moniez :)

      Limpers are dead money and i want as much of the dead money as possible.