[NL2-NL10] Sick river Card

    • odin444
      odin444
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.09.2011 Posts: 52
      Should I have folded this hand or played it any differently?

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

      Known players:
      BB:
      $1.61
      UTG2:
      $1.67
      MP1:
      $3.03
      MP2 (Hero):
      $1.97
      MP3:
      $0.69
      CO:
      $5.41
      BU:
      $2.21
      SB:
      $0.78


      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q, Q.
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0.08, MP3 raises to $0.16, CO folds, BU calls $0.16, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.08.

      Flop: ($0.51) T, 4, 9 (3 players)
      Hero bets $0.30, MP3 folds, BU calls $0.30.

      Turn: ($1.11) T (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.56, BU calls $0.56.

      River: ($2.23) 5 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $1.16, Hero folds, BU gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $2.23.
  • 7 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello odin444,

      Welcome to the English NL Hand Evaluation Forum! Hopefully we will see more hands from you in the future. I hope that with our help you can improve your play and as well move up the limits. We will be waiting for the next hands and till that good luck on tables!

      Nah, not really. Overall it's fine, I might Bet a bit bigger on the turn but overall seems to be fine. You played it fine while you need to protect it postflop and don't want to see Check behind.

      We could sometimes talk about 4betting there but we don't even know the MP3, so might be difficult to do that.

      Best Regards.
    • EinsteinFranck
      EinsteinFranck
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2009 Posts: 168
      On this one, could someone give me a range of hand we beat on the turn please? I don't a reason to bet on the turn, for me, we only beat AcJc+, JJ.

      The only hands that I can imagine follow the line min 3bet-call--call are AcJc+, ATs, JJ+. Maybe 99 or 44s but I'd be surprised to see a 3bet with so weak pp.
      And I don't think that weaker hand call on the flop (weaker hand that someone would still min 3bet preflop).

      There is
      12 combo of KK, AA,
      6 combo of JJ,
      3 combo AcJc+,
      8 combo of AT,
      2 combo of KTs,

      Against such a range, we've 11 combo behind and 20 that totaly crushes us. Our hand becomes quite deminated. Can we really call a bet river on any card? Even if it's not a spade?
      Why would it be a bad line to just give up the hand?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by EinsteinFranck
      On this one, could someone give me a range of hand we beat on the turn please? I don't a reason to bet on the turn, for me, we only beat AcJc+, JJ.

      The only hands that I can imagine follow the line min 3bet-call--call are AcJc+, ATs, JJ+. Maybe 99 or 44s but I'd be surprised to see a 3bet with so weak pp.
      And I don't think that weaker hand call on the flop (weaker hand that someone would still min 3bet preflop).

      There is
      12 combo of KK, AA,
      6 combo of JJ,
      3 combo AcJc+,
      8 combo of AT,
      2 combo of KTs,

      Against such a range, we've 11 combo behind and 20 that totaly crushes us. Our hand becomes quite deminated. Can we really call a bet river on any card? Even if it's not a spade?
      Why would it be a bad line to just give up the hand?
      Cause you don't really know with what he is min-raising like that. Doesn't always have a strong hand there in his range, maybe even draws. We are betting the turn to avoid turning our hand into bluff-catcher where it will be difficult to call him down.
    • EinsteinFranck
      EinsteinFranck
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2009 Posts: 168
      So you're betting for free river card hoping to be ahead and you basically call only a very small river bet?

      One last question, if the river card is a total brick - let's say 2s - how high would you call a river bet?
    • odin444
      odin444
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.09.2011 Posts: 52
      Cheers for that Veriz and thanks for the videos you guys post showing live sessions. Seen a few of yours recently and they've really been helping me to think more about peoples ranges

      Also Einstein, I was only putting him on a draw (seeing as how he played it so passively postflop A10+ possible JJ.) Why only call if you have KK or AA and someone is betting into you? Surely it would make more sense for him to get it all in postflop once I bet into him
    • EinsteinFranck
      EinsteinFranck
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2009 Posts: 168
      @Odin: I'd agree with you in higher limit or if you've a read that Villain is more or less regular. In micro I'd tend to think that we can't rejected the idea of a cold call of Villain after the 3bet.
      I think those monsters (freflop monsters at least) cannot be rejected because most of the opponents of micro are just too passive to raise so often overpair. And I've seen often lines such as ch/c -- ch/c -- overbet with the nuts on the flop. So I assume that this line is made to trap the opponents. And that they just don't care if they give free cards or good odds.

      Once again, it's a general impression made on 10k hands. I just try to adjust my game for this limit. I think without reads, considering that a unknown Villain can be highly passive is not such a mistake.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by EinsteinFranck
      So you're betting for free river card hoping to be ahead and you basically call only a very small river bet?

      One last question, if the river card is a total brick - let's say 2s - how high would you call a river bet?
      Yes, that's the plan and protect our hand of course. :) There isn't going to be a huge difference how high the bet is cause most likely the guy will shove. And either the opponent is capable of bluffing or not we have to decide on the opponent.