Bankroll Building Going the Wrong way

    • gottcha
      gottcha
      Basic
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10
      Bankroll building is tough I think. I'm starting to get that depositing $25 every week is no dam good and very frustrating to say the least.
      So I deposited $50 and playing sit n goes at the $1.50 level on Pokerstars.
      I started pretty good and after about 3 hours I had it up to $60 ( mind you I don't muilty table at this stage)
      So now by day 4 I'm fucking almost broke. Bad beats all over the place, I can see the huge swing and their is nothing I can do about it. I'm using a hand chart for starting requirements and still unreal. The micro stakes have brutal players who will call in any position and that certianly dosn't help. Would I be better depositing a little more and leave this $1.50 in the dust and go to maybe $5? What do you guys find the best to build a bankroll? I must really fucking suck but although my stats are brutal.
      Early Early Middle Middle Late Middle Late
      89 / 16.98% 75 / 14.31% 118 / 22.52% 107 /20.42% 134 / 25.57%


      I finish late 25% of the time but nothing to show for it.
      I don't know what to do anymore. I read books and I think I'm not a bad player but it seems like i get ahead then go down in flames.
      Does the Ip address have anything to do with it?
      I'm on the road alot for work, when I'm not home I run better, as soon as I play from home I get railed countless times.
  • 10 replies
    • TiciBoy
      TiciBoy
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.01.2010 Posts: 1,235
      If you can't beat $1,5, you won't beat $5 and above...
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,901
      Originally posted by gottcha
      Bankroll building is tough I think. I'm starting to get that depositing $25 every week is no dam good and very frustrating to say the least.


      Does the Ip address have anything to do with it?
      It is in our human nature to look for patterns -- even where none exist.
      I cannot see any reason (other than coincidence) that where you play from has any influence on the outcome, unless maybe you are more rested & relaxed at home.

      On the topic of your long string of bad beats, it could just be variance.

      If you're tired of depositing money, why not play with somebody else's?
      Check out PokerStrategy.com's offer of $50 to start playing.

      Once you've got that going, be sure to do our NL Beginner's course.
      The course concentrates on cash game play, but once you are at bronze level you will be able to avail yourself of all of the SnG materials on this site.

      That's on the off chance that it ISN'T just variance and you are actually making mistakes in your play.

      Good Luck,
      --VS
    • gottcha
      gottcha
      Basic
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10
      At what level are their fewer donkys, seems like they pull rabbits out of their hat

      Can I beat varience by sitting out for a while? or does it come with number of hands played?

      I like to play everyday and playing $1.50 1 table sit n goes, I cant see where in the hell it makes sense.
      I dont catch very many hands, I have noticed that when in a swing if i get 2 pair from 2 in my hand and 2 on board, i lose to trips most of the time.
      I wait for playable hands according to position and bet properly. It just dosnt make sense to me how the swings can be so much greater than the wins. If that was the case then nobody could build a bankroll off of sng's.
      Are sitn go's too hard to build a roll from?

      This reminds me of last year when I was up $1700 from sit n goes and then the hammer came down and its still down.
    • arthurbentley
      arthurbentley
      Silver
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 234
      You once made $1700 from playing SNGs? Then lost it all? At what buy-ins did you make $1700 from? And what buy-ins did you lose $1700?

      Avoid turbo and play normal speed SNGs. The $1.50 SNGs have a 14% rake at Pokerstars. The $1.50 knockouts are much better value rake wise. So play these. They are also softer, and full of donks. You can almost fold into the money.
    • bettingstation
      bettingstation
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.12.2009 Posts: 125
      i agree with VorpalF2F, you should rest for a while after your bad beat experience or losing streak...

      I doing it now and fine with me...
    • gottcha
      gottcha
      Basic
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10
      Knockouts eh...mmm

      I built up the $1700 mostly from satalites and getting tournament dollars then i headed to sit n goes.
      The first time I had $300 and played $11 180 person, i won a couple of them.
      I then played $15, $30, and $60 driving me to over $1,700.
      I cashed out $1,000 and had around 700 with some change.
      I took a huge swing which I lost more than half playing at that time I think it was $11- 180 person sit n go

      ever since then I havent built up to even a hundred bucks. I play around 24% of hands giver take
      I have read more books since then, just get beat by complete sht hands, even shoving some idiot will call or the blinds turn a AA or 10 10.

      I admit I get pissed and play like sht sometimes but when a new day hits im good to go.
    • arthurbentley
      arthurbentley
      Silver
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 234
      I am still a novice at poker and have yet to play any game for more than $3.30 buy in. Whereas you have played SNGs at decent stakes.

      Re;
      "The first time I had $300 and played $11 180 person, i won a couple of them."


      $300 bankroll for $11 180 mans. That is 27 buy-ins bankroll.

      I cashed out $1,000 and had around 700 with some change. I took a huge swing which I lost more than half playing at that time I think it was $11- 180 person sit n go


      $700 bankroll for $11 180 mans. That is roughly 64 buy-ins available.

      Firstly, 64 buy-ins for 180 mans isn't nearly enough to safeguard you from variance. It is not enough for the softer $4.40 180 mans! You need a minimum of 100 buy-ins for a winning player in mtts. 150 would be much better. You also need to drop-down a level if you lose a chunk of your roll.

      I think playing 24% of hands is too loose.

      If you have a big stack and have good post flop skills. Then by all means play 24% of hands if that is your strong game. However, best to play early levels very tightly, then loosen up on the money bubble to abuse the blinds. Making steals and re-steals. Most of the donks will have been knocked out by then.

      So to recap:

      For mtts (non-turbo)you need 100-150 buy-ins. You also need to drop down a level if you lose a chunk of your roll. Say 50 buy-ins.
    • Grokken
      Grokken
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.03.2011 Posts: 30
      Originally posted by gottcha
      The micro stakes have brutal players who will call in any position and that certianly dosn't help. Would I be better depositing a little more and leave this $1.50 in the dust and go to maybe $5?

      Moving up in stakes because you are losing is a terrible idea, it will just make you lose even more. Instead, try to analyze how your opponents are playing at your current stakes, and find weaknesses in their play. Knowing that your opponents will call with anything certainly does help, you can use that knowledge to your advantage by valuebetting more and bluffing less.
    • dubadal
      dubadal
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2008 Posts: 263
      while amount of micro games on stars is great, you have to be aware that competition there is quite tough, as many serious or serious to be players are grinding there.
      if you do insist on playing sngs, might try party or one of large UK rooms instead.
      also, as someone mentioned, variance in mtt sngs is huge, so as a beginner your ROI could really be like - bust 100 times, then break even over two-three good places in a row. which is frustrating, unless you have a bankroll to back you.
      maybe focus on single-table sngs for the time being? you will be ITM more often for sure and get your mental health up :) . DONs arent too bad for practicing ICM and discipline in the early-mid stages...

      p.s. +1 for not moving up in stakes - you will either lose more money or win a little and lose all of it again. dont focus on making up your losses - focus on becoming better and making fewer bad calls/pushes
    • racenutalways
      racenutalways
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 172
      Hey gotcha my run a t stars was horriible over 500k hands

      My WR at the 1.50 tables was near br8 even. 1.00 tables, same style same players ITM 30%<go figure.
      The 4.50 tables was better in terms of ROI
      I couldn't get better then 22% ITM but a tight super agro style wins a lot of pots, you actually have FE there and the regs play in default mode, ez reads.....

      Everywhere else I played SnGs in the past my ITM was never lower then 28%

      I went back to cash games, EZ money!! Less variance, more str8 forward players.

      Will I play SnGs again, nope, stars are the only ones with good SnGs, Stars(FullTilt) and I have trust issues....

      Switch to 6max cash, get good at 6max cash. everything else becomes easy. especially SnGs.

      Hope you have PT4 or HEM, hope you scan your Opp to see which play 8 tables+ "default mode player". Stay clear, their bluff/bet ratio is slow, always raise them never call!! TP isnt worth stacking vs them......