[NL20-NL50] [SH] NL 25 AA OOP 3bet pot bet sizing issues

    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Party Poker $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 3 players - View hand 1824257
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      Hero (BB): $25.35 -
      BTN: $38.23 - VPIP: 26, PFR: 19, 3B: 9, AF: 1.8, Hands: 54
      SB: $26.20 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 22, 3B: 25, AF: 0.0, Hands: 18

      Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with A :spade: A :club:
      BTN raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.75, BTN calls $2

      Flop: ($5.60) J :club: 2 :club: Q :spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets $3.75, BTN calls $3.75

      Turn: ($13.10) 7 :spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets $18.85, BTN folds

      What betsize would you suggest in these spots where I have vulnerable value hands that would like to get it in in 2 streets time.

      Should I go for slight overbet flop, then pot shove turn, or 4 or on the flop overbet shove turn, or 4 flop, x/shove turn ( should be risky because many draws should check back here, right?) ?

      Edit: Please move this, my bad.
  • 10 replies
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Silver
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,979
      Moved :)
    • martins1337
      martins1337
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.06.2009 Posts: 272
      don't think you need to protect that much. what worse hands would call you on Turn?
      maybe even AQ is folding
      and because you hold Ac there is not many f-draws, KcTc and maybe sc, like Tc9c, but that hand would get it in on flop. I would bet 3$ flop, ~1/2Pot turn and then all in river, probably any river.
      I don't know what to do when he raises tho, probably got it in - JJ might 4bet/call PF, because you are 3handed
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello DeMarcohsp,

      He doesn't really look like super bad opponent, so you have to ask yourself already on the flop how many worse hands pay you? Is he capable of having a lot Qx hands? Meanwhile a lot of his range which is going to be JJ/QQ has you hardly beat. Therefore already the Cb size on the flop is too huge if to CB at all.

      We might even turn our hand into bluff-catcher and just Check/Call it cause I doubt that he will Call you 2 streets with just for example Jx hands. Especially the shove on the turn. But of course Bet/Bet ain't wrong but you should definitely do smaller.

      Best Regards.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Let's say we bet flop+turn and he flats twice, should we shove a blank river?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Let's say we bet flop+turn and he flats twice, should we shove a blank river?
      Check/Fold it cause I doubt that he is going to Bet with a lot worse hands there and meanwhile has a lot of JJ/QQ combos which may trap like that. We also hold both nutFD Ace.
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Let's say we bet flop+turn and he flats twice, should we shove a blank river?
      Check/Fold it cause I doubt that he is going to Bet with a lot worse hands there and meanwhile has a lot of JJ/QQ combos which may trap like that. We also hold both nutFD Ace.
      My aggression might have gotten to my head... do we only expect viilain to flat here what? TT-QQ and AQ?

      I was putting him on all suited broadways and some unsuited ones + suited aces/ connectors so it looks like a lot of value to be had, but maybe people don't defend wide even though they should at this limit as a default.....
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by DeMarcohsp
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Let's say we bet flop+turn and he flats twice, should we shove a blank river?
      Check/Fold it cause I doubt that he is going to Bet with a lot worse hands there and meanwhile has a lot of JJ/QQ combos which may trap like that. We also hold both nutFD Ace.
      My aggression might have gotten to my head... do we only expect viilain to flat here what? TT-QQ and AQ?

      I was putting him on all suited broadways and some unsuited ones + suited aces/ connectors so it looks like a lot of value to be had, but maybe people don't defend wide even though they should at this limit as a default.....
      Nah, I would assume he is capable of calling looser. It's difficult to analyze a range when you don't even know the hero image, opponents fold to 3bet. :(
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      When should I expect villains to start defending closed to optimal ranges vs 3bets?

      Hero's image is crazy for NL 25 (27/25 11% 3bet)
    • Puscherbilbo
      Puscherbilbo
      Silver
      Joined: 17.06.2009 Posts: 1,229
      I would discount JJ/QQ to a certain degree as he is most likely to play 4bet/call with those. I mean we have BU vs BB after all. The exeception being that he does give your first/second (?) 3bet so little credit that he actually decides to trap there. It is not unheared of that players 3bet a lot junk when new at the table.

      I personally assume a tight/semitight range there.
      ATs+ AJo maybe ATo, KJs+ KQo, some pockets possibly 77-TT or 66-JJ or sth similar. Some guys also peal with hands like JTs/T9s.


      As we indeed block the NutFD i would not worry too much about those in terms of protection. I just play bet/bet/push vs his Qx.

      Keep in mind that actually it is more likely that we are on the draw. So i would probably push any River.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by DeMarcohsp
      When should I expect villains to start defending closed to optimal ranges vs 3bets?

      Hero's image is crazy for NL 25 (27/25 11% 3bet)
      You have on the guy 54 hands which I didn't see at first place. :D So only dynamics made sense here. And discounting JJ/QQ always here is just a mistake, he definitely has them in his range.