FL 5CD spot where keep going wrong

    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      I'm in the CO with say QQ77x. I raise (I usually raise >JJxxx and Ace high flush draws from there), and it folds round to BB who 3bets.

      When I am an autopiloting :f_ugly: , I call, we both draw one, I don't improve, he bets, and I either fold and wonder why I called, or call and get shown trips.

      Here's what I think I should do:

      1) Against a nit who 3bets next to nothing, I could call and draw three to QQ, but then I don't actually have the odds to call, and may well improve to a second best hand, so I think the best play is to fold.
      2) Against a better player who has a wider 3betting range (I'd 3bet >AAxxx from BB against someone opening >JJxxx from CO), I should cap and either draw one and hope to get a free showdown, or pat and do the same.

      Anyone have an opinion on where this sits on the spectrum that runs from insane to sensible?
  • 5 replies
    • IlUvToFuK12yGeRl
      IlUvToFuK12yGeRl
      Basic
      Joined: 24.07.2012 Posts: 2
      .
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      Originally posted by IlUvToFuK12yGeRl
      .
      Oh dear! I read this quickly last night and decided to read it carefully and reply this morning, and it's gone. :f_cry:
    • IlUvToFuK12yGeRl
      IlUvToFuK12yGeRl
      Basic
      Joined: 24.07.2012 Posts: 2
      Oh dear! I read this quickly last night and decided to read it carefully and reply this morning, and it's gone. fish cry


      At least you know how students feel when you clean out the blackboard too quickly :s_evil:

      Just fold predraw if he's range is KKup+, drawing 3 to QQ seems submarginal.
      If there is a tiny chance you're ahead (say you only beat JJup) normally call and draw 1. ~8% for FH + another ~8% that you are ahead can now make a profitable call. A "normall" player won't bet weak 2 pair in this spot so basically you're calling for a free showdown.

      ^^ that's for players that never or very larerly...rarelyry...rarlery...rrr...seldom semibluffs.

      If someone is 3-bet-happy with draws you'll have to take your ladiesUP to showdown as to not be exploitable. That also depends on how wide is he semibluffing! If he 3-bet only 12-15outers and AK-flushdraws it is unprofitable to try to catch him. Just wanted to say that QQup is a good part of your range and IF you are folding this players may actually rape you with any hand...but they won't...they're too weak :f_cool:
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,944
      Originally posted by IlUvToFuK12yGeRl
      Oh dear! I read this quickly last night and decided to read it carefully and reply this morning, and it's gone. fish cry


      At least you know how students feel when you clean out the blackboard too quickly :s_evil:

      Just fold predraw if he's range is KKup+, drawing 3 to QQ seems submarginal.
      If there is a tiny chance you're ahead (say you only beat JJup) normally call and draw 1. ~8% for FH + another ~8% that you are ahead can now make a profitable call. A "normall" player won't bet weak 2 pair in this spot so basically you're calling for a free showdown.

      ^^ that's for players that never or very larerly...rarelyry...rarlery...rrr...seldom semibluffs.

      If someone is 3-bet-happy with draws you'll have to take your ladiesUP to showdown as to not be exploitable. That also depends on how wide is he semibluffing! If he 3-bet only 12-15outers and AK-flushdraws it is unprofitable to try to catch him. Just wanted to say that QQup is a good part of your range and IF you are folding this players may actually rape you with any hand...but they won't...they're too weak :f_cool:
      I think that's the conclusion I came to. Do you play on Stars? Add me on Skype if you ever want to talk 5CD. :f_biggrin:
    • AlfaChino
      AlfaChino
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.04.2012 Posts: 11
      haha JB, I see you are still tormented by 5CD...

      If you look at your hand as isolated hand then you fold your QsUp... If you look at it in context of x number of hands played with that dude, you have to decide how many times is he defending and how often with weaker hand and how often will he do that if you back off... In my opinion QsUp are ok hand to try to block potential exploit.
      What I would do if that player is not tight is call his 3bet just to call him again after draw because he will often 3bet any two pair in this situation and probably check after draw in that case or fire small.