River calling efficiency

    • FlashDavin
      FlashDavin
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2011 Posts: 421
      My river calling efficiency is not good.

      What general rule of thumb do players use here? Sometimes I will call their bet with TPTK which may be part of my problem.

      Two pair + depending on board once the opponent is the one betting?

      Thanks.
  • 8 replies
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,510
      If it is over 1, it's good. If it is over 1,5 it is very good. If it is over 3 with a big sample size you are calling too tight on river.
    • FlashDavin
      FlashDavin
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2011 Posts: 421
      I'm looking for the exact stat but I think it's around 1 and not as high as 1.5.

      How do I look to improve it? Calling with a two pair and stronger range generally?
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      anything over 1 is good because it means that you're actually making some profit when you call the river. :f_biggrin:

      my own value is 2.16 fwiw, looks a tad too high tbh
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,510
      If it's 1, it means that your river calls are break even. That sucks, as you will make the call with nuts every now and then. So when you take all the nut-calls away, you are making bad calls with the rest of the hands. That's why think that it should be around 1,5 at least. Some might think that the higher it is, the better it is. That is wrong, as higher stat indicates that you are calling only with nuts. If you make river calls only when you are +99% sure you have the better hand, your river call eff. goes very high.

      You have to understand that you don't need to win the pot with every river call. If opponent bets half a pot on river, you need to win the pot over 35% of time or so to make profit.

      No one can tell you what to do with 2 pairs on the river, it all depends on opponents, actions, table dynamics and reads. The better you get, the better you will become in hand reading. And that way you will notice more when villains make unlogical lines which might indicate a bluff.

      In small sample sizes the number can be pretty high and it doesn't mean you are calling too nitty. If you have huge spewing machine on one table who keeps bluffing you at rivers, and you constantly catch them, your river call eff gets through the roof. Or likewise, you happen to go against the very top of villains range in few big pots, it goes down a lot.
    • ProfitsofDoom
      ProfitsofDoom
      Basic
      Joined: 29.08.2012 Posts: 177
      I use Leakbuster. and the last 2 months, my River Call Efficiency has been showing up as my most critical leak.
      Leakbuster has the optimal range between 1.7 - 2.5. I just ran a database analysis, and i'm coming up at about 1.14.

      I think earlier i was probably pretty tight about calling on the river. and now have tried to get a little better at hand reading, etc. and may be making some bad calls. I guess maybe i need to start posting some of these hands, where i'm calling.
    • babibabu
      babibabu
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.07.2010 Posts: 22
      To analize river play its good to look at 2 stats:
      -River call efficency
      -River call Win %
      Few months ago that stats in my hh looked: RCE=1,44 (good) and RCW% =32% (too low). My coach told me that it says that I generaly make good calls but I call too often in small pots which makes RCW% low. When you analize that 2 stats it tells You how much profit You make on river calls and how often the calls are correct.
    • steven5656
      steven5656
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2010 Posts: 34
      The stat is very counter-intuitive. Around 0.7-0.8, depending on bet size, is actually what a break even call on the river would be. Someone tested it out on another forum a while ago.
    • neotesani
      neotesani
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2010 Posts: 92
      My RCE is 1.59, so i should be happy, but there is room for improvement, no?