What are standard bet sizes nowadays?

    • ZeroDegrees
      ZeroDegrees
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2008 Posts: 743
      Need help to develop a standard bet sizing for tourneys. How's this ? :

      1. Open raises 4x, if limpers (4 + number of limpers)x in Early Stage
      As the tournament goes on I step down to 3x, 2.5x, 2x

      2. C-bet flop 45%, c-bet turn 75%, if 1-2 opponents

      I just watched aroon lambert's video on bet sizing and he mentions standard bet sizing. Of course learning how to size bets correctly is what I'm going for, but there are situations when a standard bet sizing can be good he says, for example; other players are better, you're multitabling. I also play while watching movies sometimes and then I have problems seeing what the blind levels are, let alone notice any players. I don't do that for learning or winning (primarly) and can afford losing a buck in a low buyin or free roll tourney.
  • 12 replies
    • PokerPPP
      PokerPPP
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2009 Posts: 494
      Really interested in that as well as I only play MTTs recently. So if anyone can elaborate that would be brilliant :)
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,503
      early phase of a tournament:
      - open raise 3BB, in mirco's you may want to open 4BB to get more foldequity
      - contibet ~50%, 2nd barrel 60% (imo it is not possible to define standard betsizings for postflop spots - but these should be adequate)

      mid & late phase:
      - open raise 2BB (some players open raise 2,5BB - in fact it makes no difference in terms of foldequity)
      - contibet 30 to 50%, same for 2nd barrel (again: i can't recommend standard betsizing for postflop action)

      If you have further questions feel free to ask!

      Regards,
      Asaban
    • TJtheTJ
      TJtheTJ
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2011 Posts: 6,470
      I personally like to raise 3x preflop when the blinds are still very low (or rather, when stacks are still very deep). Sometimes I may make it 3.5x if everyone is really deep stacked (like 300BB or more or something, which is really rare in online tournaments). I tend to raise 2.5x when antes kick in, or when the blinds start to get relatively big (when my stack is 30-40BB or so). When the blinds/antes get even higher, I move down to 2.25x, especially when people around me start to get relatively short-stacked.

      That's just what I do preflop. I think it works fairly well.

      I never really like to min-raise though. It just seems like a pretty weak play. I sometimes see people min-raising even in the very low blind levels. That's just very bad, imo. But even with big blind levels, I like to make it just a tad larger than a min-raise. I guess there's not a very big difference in fold equity, though, between a 2x raise and a 2.25x raise, so I'm not sure if min-raising is actually better of not. Would like some input on this as well!

      Post flop I have a 'standard' bet size between 50% and 75% of the pot. 50% on dry flops, larger on wetter boards or in multiway pots. Sometimes I bet even more, dependent on the situation.

      I don't think you can have an exactly standard bet size post flop, due to the cards that may come on the board and the amount of/types of opponents you have in the hand.
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,503
      Imo it makes a big difference if you open raise 2BB or 2,5BB. While the FE stays the same, each steal costs you way more chips. Therefore you will have to win more steals in order to play profitable. Minraising favours a loose-aggressive style which is very popular nowadays.

      Regards,
      Asaban
    • PokerPPP
      PokerPPP
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2009 Posts: 494
      With regards to what Asaban says I have reached a conclusion that min raising I sometimes bad. Let me clarify: I play MTTs only in Everest and I play the Micro MTTS $1-5.50. People in Everest on those stakes would just call a min raise from CO or BU more than 50% of the time if not more than 60%, while they would fold to a 2.5x or 3x bet from the same position . I find that a little weird and it is the first time I see people doing that. So I would say stealing especially deep in a tourney depends largely on poker room, stakes & field. In Everest I find it better to just raise more ( yes I am going to loose more chips if called) and ensure a fold in 60-70% of the time rather than risk it with a min raise.
    • Asaban
      Asaban
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      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,503
      Micro stakes are a bit "different" in general. Since I haven't played micro and low Buyin's in a long period of time I am not really able to give perfect advise on how to play them. Since players tend to call more a 2,5x open raise seems perfectly reasonable here.

      Regards,
      Asaban
    • M0na1isa
      M0na1isa
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 133
      It's true about FE. 2.5x is probably a major leak. But I do find bets like x2.113 carry some sort of a psychological affection. Not sure if it is just on me with delusion of better FE, or it is actually true.

      What's your opinion on that?
    • FarligeJohn
      FarligeJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.07.2012 Posts: 24
      Originally posted by M0na1isa
      It's true about FE. 2.5x is probably a major leak. But I do find bets like x2.113 carry some sort of a psychological affection. Not sure if it is just on me with delusion of better FE, or it is actually true.

      What's your opinion on that?
      I think you're right about the x2.113 and the psychological effect it has on your opponent, but the "standard raise" should vary throughout the tournament, taking stack sizes and positioning in account.
    • Wohmfg
      Wohmfg
      Silver
      Joined: 12.11.2009 Posts: 500
      Originally posted by M0na1isa
      It's true about FE. 2.5x is probably a major leak. But I do find bets like x2.113 carry some sort of a psychological affection. Not sure if it is just on me with delusion of better FE, or it is actually true.

      What's your opinion on that?
      I actually think this is true.

      As an aside, I very rarely see fish raise to some random number like 822 when the blinds are 200/400, they either 2x, 2.5x or 3x. Sometimes this discourages me from raising to an odd number in case the better players pick up on it.
    • XxMatadorExX
      XxMatadorExX
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.06.2011 Posts: 243
      I min raise in general! (and on ipoker just press f3 lol when multi tabling is just the way to go! or tableninja set it up on PS) and cbets 2nd barrel etc! It depends on the situation! My hand, stack size, my opponents stack size, how many players in the hand, if you want to show weakness or make it look that you wont fold with a bluff etc, if you want to build the pot w.e etc! To be honest it's all about situation.

      I play pretty loose and with that i say i dont fall in love with my hands even if they are big hand or avg hands (if i get called light because of min raises having big hands on early levels) ! I dont have a problem playing post flop i can make my lay downs etc so im not afraid of getting called BY ANYTHING! Just try to be in POSITION work on YOUR POSTFLOP GAME and YOUR GOOD to go! MIN PRE! It wont be a problem! MAX 2.5

      Pre flop just open min just to be the aggressor then go from there, it also makes it easier to make light 4 bets if you get 3bet etc. If you open 4x like you said thats just crazy you will never be able to 4 bet bluff light without commiting too much if the guy 3 bets you as big too. any way min raise or 2.5 but thats it! and know when to cbet ; )

      oh another thing! that i take in consideration when i open in 1-15$ mtts. if i see the BB is somehow short i tend to open 2.5x so he doesnt call me light. for example bbs 1200 2400 i have 45k. and BB has 19k lets say... i open 5400 so he has to pay 3k its kind of a illusion going to the 3k but in theses micro mtts it might make the difference. since these guys normally are trying to stop and go with these stacks. if the bb has an avg stack it really does not matter.

      pd. had a few beers and have a long time i dont come by and english is not my 1st language so i dont know if my advice is ok. il re check tomorrow!
    • k3ntt
      k3ntt
      Basic
      Joined: 21.02.2013 Posts: 8
      finally, someones pays attention to what would be usefull fr a beginner player...i think this subject should have more attention in comin' .......justsayin i guess it was right, when i was raising 2bbs 4bbs in early stages when the blinds were 20/40 and under it?
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,503
      Hey guys :)

      There is no point in splitting the same discussion into two seperat threads. Since the other one is more actual I will close this one. Please continue discussing the matter in this thread:

      betting structure

      Thank you!

      Regards,
      Asaban