Problems in winning "part-time"

    • Rahica
      Rahica
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 149
      Hello ! I am an amateur poker player, for the moment playing NL10 Fast Poker in Titan and Pokerstars Zoom Poker.. I have pretty good results confirmed by the specialized tracking player websites in Sit&Go, Heads Up and MTT small limits with the username "Lakatherinka". In the cash games NL5 and NL10 I am doing pretty well also.
      Most of the times I am very happy with the way I'm playing in the cash game sessions. The big problem is that sometimes, I don't manage to concentrate fully. I don't know if it's overconfidence, tiredness or lack of patience or concentration but I just find myself not thinking like I normally do some hands during a session.
      I usually play TAG style in Fast Poker and play small sessions like 300 hands after which I have an average profit of 3 extra buy-ins.
      Normally when I play before going to work I manage to do it all like planned. When I'm coming from work the bad sessions start ( I work in the night time and I get back home at 4-5 o'clock in the morning, finding an average 20 players online in this time, over 50% rag players ).
      Need some help to understand why most of the times I manage to play by the book, but sometimes I just can't concentrate and manage to blow my stack away with marginal hands like A6, which I usually don't play. Thank you anticipated ! Cheers !
  • 12 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Well, I'm pretty sure that you don't want to hear this, but the short answer is "variance".

      First of all, I'm massively impressed that you average 3BI profit in 300-hand sessions.

      If you are used to such winrates, it makes sense that you would be devastated by a losing session.

      One thing I notice in your post is,
      Normally when I play before going to work I manage to do it all like planned. When I'm coming from work the bad sessions start ( I work in the night time and I get back home at 4-5 o'clock in the morning, finding an average 20 players online in this time, over 50% rag players ).
      I have a similar problem. When I have the time to play, it is 01:00 - 03:00 in Europe, and only the reggaest of reg super nitty players are available on the few tables that exist.

      You might be facing a similar situation.

      Not only that but after work, you are not nearly as mentally alert as you were when you started work.

      I'll be interested in hearing what others have to say...
      --VS
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      As Vorpal said, 100bb/100 is an insane win rate, nice.

      If you find yourself playing badly just stop. Sometimes you're in the zone and when you are you should keep playing and other times you're just not at your best and you've gotta just have the discipline to stop. :f_biggrin:
    • Rahica
      Rahica
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 149
      Sorry if I gave you the feeling that I posted this message because I want to brag about my average win rate. I also want to add that at 4-6 o'clock in the morning ( Europe time ), on Pokerstars I managed to break even after one session in NL5, 6 handed and 9 handed, something like 500 hands. Most of these players were TAGs ( and extra tight I might add ) and you don't get much action, so I think that getting a profit of 3BI is out of the question here..
      I think I will try to start playing only during the day when you can find all types of players at the tables.
      Thank you for the advices guys ! The problem is I don't realize when I play bad until I lose an all in. After that the tilt starts to come and I am lost. Normally after 3 lost BI I stop the session but I still have "reg thoughts" :) ). I hate it because I am losing control and I start to get pissed off that my brain is not at the table, but somewhere else. Very very annoying !!!!
    • DeLau
      DeLau
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.01.2009 Posts: 1,606
      I don't understand why Vorpal & Metza didn't tell you but a winrate of 100BB/100 hands is simply impossible.

      In addition to what they said, you have to know that everyone has loosing sessions. It's impossible to always win. The trick is to not tilt during these sessions and realise that you're just having a bad run.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      review, analyze zour hands, learn, improve your game, even if you're winning, it doesn't mean that you're n9t making mistakes. a good winrate samplesize is 100k hands. focus more on your game than short term results. results can lie!

      table select, no matter when you're playing. if tables suck, try another platform, or don't play. you're just losing money to rake if you're using beginners strategies on tight tables.

      if you do mistakes like losing a stack with A6, you're probably playing your c-game. i suggest reading the book "the mental game of poker" to help you with that problem.

      another thing to consider are your energy levels after work, they're probably pretty low, and there are many possible reasons... that's why you aren't able to concentrate. play when you're well rested and feeling great for best results!

      -sf
    • Rahica
      Rahica
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 149
      Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough.. I was talking only about the winning sessions when I said that my average is 3 BI ( not counting the loosing sessions ), just for you guys to form an idea. In Fast Poker Titan micro limits NL5 and NL10 ( recently ), my profit is 140$ in 10k hands approximately. I jumped from Bronze to Silver and I will get Gold status by the end of the month.
    • maheepsangari
      maheepsangari
      Gold
      Joined: 08.06.2010 Posts: 2,163
      Only counting winning sessions huh, thats what I call variance of variance.

      The only goal while at micros is to fix leaks and prepare yourself for higher stakes. Don't go too deep into win rates and don't start analyzing at what times you make more profit than other times. Use that time and analysis to analyze your game, find leaks and fix them and work on your mental game. You can worry about win rates and stuff like that when you're at mid stakes.
    • Rahica
      Rahica
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 149
      I just realized I don't need coaching, I need a psychologist or something because I've never been so tilted in my entire life ( and I've been playing poker for 8 years now, but never on a regular basis since last year ). I have the feeling that I'm gonna be 80 years old and still be in the micros.. I am tired, stressed and the most important feeling is DISAPPOINTED ! Never really happened to me to lose so before.. It's not downswing, it's me ! I'm killing my bankroll !
      I guess I will have a break for a while and after a couple of days, if somebody needs some free money, you'll find me in the NL10 Titan Fast Poker... FOR THE NEXT 50-60 YEARS !!!
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,910
      Never really happened to me to lose so before.. It's not downswing, it's me ! I'm killing my bankroll !
      Oh, boy do I know THAT feeling...
      If you are generally successful at things you do, poker can be EXTREMELY frustrating. This is so, because unlike most activities, in poker the same actions can result in both winning and losing

      I never took up golf because I judged that it would be too frustrating, and (this is funny) I don't handle frustration well. Poker is way more frustrating than golf I'm guessing.

      However, as time goes on, the frustration gets less and less, even though my bankroll is heading in the same direction.

      How many hands do you play a day?

      I play about 200-500 per day, and the problem there is that at 400 hands per day, a 20,000 hand downswing takes fifty days to get through -- and there is no guarantee that it will end even then.

      Now the nasty part.
      You start to change your play because you think you're doing something wrong. You might be, but there is no guarantee that even if you start doing everything right that your downswing will end.

      There are a lot of things you can do to help:
        Take a break from poker for 1 week. No study, not videos, no news, not even any play money!
        Drop down a limit (even if your are rolled well enough for your current limit)
        Reduce the # of tables you play so that you can concentrate on individual players more.
        Turn off your HUD for a session (it scary, but you can do it), so that you have to think about the villains current actions and behaviours.
        Review your notes.
        Review your best / worst sessions
        Take your 20 biggest losers, and 10 biggest winners, and post them in the han devaluation forums. When you do, get rid of the results, and leave your last action up to the judge to tell you what you should have done. Don't let on in the post whether it was a winner or a loser.
        Read the book Schnitzelfish recommended earlier in this thread.
        Read Schnitzelfisch's post on productivity.
        Connect with other PokerStrategists and hold sweat sessions -- maybe even take some of your remaining bankroll and hire a coach for a couple of sessions.

      Good luck!
      --VS
    • Rahica
      Rahica
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 149
      I would say I play about 2000 hands per day in the Fast Poker ( aka Zoom Poker ).. Thank you for the advices ! Will try my best to get out of downswing with my head up...
    • tieppofer
      tieppofer
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 282
      I strongly advise you to take a little time out of the tables (and at least a week without thinking about poker). Work on your leaks, review your sessions, try to sleep and eat better, stay away from the tables after you get home from work... That should help you at least a little :)

      Cheers.
    • Rahica
      Rahica
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 149
      It did... I took a break for 3-4 days and now I am back and things look good.. Now I am able to get a bad beat with my head up and without acting like a rag.. Thanks a lot for all your advices ! See you at the tables ( and if you do see me tell me that you helped me in "recovering" and I promise I will check behind my 4 of a kind ) :) )) .. Have a good one !