ITT I potentially get my spew out

    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Ok, kinda weird hand here, I have notes that villain defends blinds weirdly wide and plays a lot of Axss hands, he is a reg but seems v splashy pre. He seems like he can hand read pretty well.

      I'm not sure about my river sizing I'm pretty sure its horrific in this actual spot, but its to get the middle part of his range to fold Ax rather than flushes.

      WUG?

      €2/€4 No Limit Holdem
      Prima
      5 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG Player3 (€1,516.83) 379bb
      CO pleno1 (€599) 150bb
      BTN Player5 (€389) 97bb
      SB Player1 (€457) 114bb
      BB Player2 (€194) 49bb

      Pre-Flop: (€6, 5 players) pleno1 is CO 7 5
      1 fold, pleno1 raises to €12, 1 fold, Player1 calls €10, 1 fold

      Flop: A 8 6 (€28, 2 players)
      Player1 checks, pleno1 bets €20, Player1 calls €20

      Turn: Q (€68, 2 players)
      Player1 checks, pleno1 checks

      River: Q (€68, 2 players)
      Player1 bets €52, Pleno1 raises to €212
  • 12 replies
    • RAWFORCE
      RAWFORCE
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.08.2012 Posts: 3
      I think tripling here would be ok. don't really like the river raise and if he folded then he was very likely bluffing.
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      I agree with Rawforce here in the respect that we should just be triple barrelling or giving up.

      How do you think he perceives a river raise? as KQ/QJ? If so he could just cram a lot and own your soul :D

      You have mentioned that villain defends blinds too wide and as a result just gives him a weak range. Punish that shit by getting the barrels out.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      I think we rep Qx pretty well with a turn check back and river raise. I would never barrel a Q on the turn, but I would often 3 barrel vs a semi weak range including lots of underpairs etc so when I raised the river I expected him to think I was never bluffing.

      3 barrelling is also a fine option, especially as we probably had 6 cleanies to improve to the best hand.
    • Shevtshenko
      Shevtshenko
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.12.2009 Posts: 4,087
      Originally posted by CallumN
      I agree with Rawforce here in the respect that we should just be triple barrelling or giving up.

      How do you think he perceives a river raise? as KQ/QJ? If so he could just cram a lot and own your soul :D

      You have mentioned that villain defends blinds too wide and as a result just gives him a weak range. Punish that shit by getting the barrels out.
      if we are raising a Q on R, i doubt we are folding to jam. I personally would just bet-bet-bet instead of trying to hit.
    • TheLastNail
      TheLastNail
      Black
      Joined: 30.05.2008 Posts: 6,021
      i dont think Qx should be raising on the R, and certainly not that sizing. (what worse are u ever getting called by?)

      hence hate it.

      if there is a logical r sizing it has to be very little over minr. But T is so much better for ur range, dont understand why u wouldnt barell it.
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      I think this will probably work more often than it should, but with that said, personally I would just cbet turn almost every time here. Such a good spot to double barrel, and then overbet all rivers except spades (where I think it's best to bet 75% of pot)
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      Originally posted by imfromsweden007
      I think this will probably work more often than it should, but with that said, personally I would just cbet turn almost every time here. Such a good spot to double barrel, and then overbet all rivers except spades (where I think it's best to bet 75% of pot)
      can you explain why we overbet blank rivers as opposed to going for pot or 75% pot? is it because you feel villain caps his range by c/c turn?
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      2 assumptions:

      -He is way more likely to have a hand such as Ax than a hand such as a flush.
      -People fold Ax/other bluffcatchers way too often on the river to an overbet.

      Hence I like an overbet. I don't hate betting 75% of pot, just think he bluffcatches more often against that sizing.
    • getdotacom
      getdotacom
      Black
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 607
      I think we even can't raise KQ for value on that river. His value range should be pretty strong because we can't have much to call besides Qx. Don't see that many floats or hands to turn into a bluff, even if he's defending wide, people usually don't call super wide from SB, but 3bet. Also he can have Qx himself sometimes because he floats KcQx,QcJc most likely.

      I prefer 2barrel or 3barrel if I wanted to bluff in this hand.
    • getdotacom
      getdotacom
      Black
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 607
      Originally posted by imfromsweden007
      I think this will probably work more often than it should, but with that said, personally I would just cbet turn almost every time here. Such a good spot to double barrel, and then overbet all rivers except spades (where I think it's best to bet 75% of pot)
      I really don't agree that overbetting blank river is a good idea here. Villain still could have slowplayed many nutted hands. How can u balance it out with value hands ? If we wanna overbet all flushes, we aren't allowed to bluff very often because he will beat our weak flushes at least 20% of the time when calls.
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      We don't need to balance it out, it's an exploitive play based on the fact that he probably folds too many non-flush hands to a river overbet.

      And I don't really agree that villain "could have slowplayed lots of hands", on this kind of flop I expect people to raise their sets/2pairs close to 100%. Sure, he can have a few flushdraws that he check/called flop with, but not enough compared to the other parts of his range.

      Also, I think 2barreling is a huge misstake, and I would rather just cbet and give up than do that. He will call lots of Ax again, and even hands such as 2nd pair or king highs if they have a decent spade to go with their hand. So 2barreling, but not following through on the river would be a huge misstake imo.
    • getdotacom
      getdotacom
      Black
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 607
      OK, I did some math. No idea what's his calling range on the turn, but I gave him something similar to mine on this board - AJs-ATs,KsJs,KsTs,JsTs,AJo-AcTs,AhTs,AdTs,KsQc,KsQd,KsQh. When we overbet for 1.5x pot he has to defend 40% of that range, which is AJs-ATs,KsJs,KsTs,JsTs,AhJs. As u can see he has to defend only 3combos of Ax, but some people would call with AJ all day long IMO + they might show up with 88 or AQ time to time as well. For that reason we can overbet only if they never slowplay flush and can't have AQ, but I think many people would just call the turn with it, if so, we probably can exploit them by overbetting only flush and never bluffing :P