[NL2-NL10] NL25, K8s, freeplay, FD

    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Known players:
      CO:
      $24,30
      MP3:
      $19,90
      MP2:
      $22,65
      MP1:
      $26,20
      UTG+2:
      $39,85
      UTG+1:
      $43,35
      Hero:
      $5,00
      SB:
      $25,10
      BU:
      $5,10

      0,1/0,25 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.49 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 8:diamond: , K:diamond:
      UTG+1 calls $0,25, 4 folds, CO calls $0,25, BU calls $0,25, SB folds, Hero checks.

      Flop: ($1,10) 9:diamond: , 8:heart: , J:diamond: (4 players)
      Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $1,10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4,75 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $3,65.

      Turn: ($10,60) Q:heart:
      River: ($10,60) 7:club:


      Final Pot: $10,60




      I thought I had about 10 outs, I was wrong, but would you generally say that the push was justified? I believe a call was not an option because I was OOP.
  • 8 replies
    • SunWukung
      SunWukung
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 28
      IMO check and fold to bet on the flop. Without preflop raise is your draw worthless according to the strategy, especially when there are 3 players after you. Pair of 8s is a bit weak hand to play OOP without preflop aggression as well. Or am I wrong?
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by SunWukung
      IMO check and fold to bet on the flop. Without preflop raise is your draw worthless according to the strategy, especially when there are 3 players after you. Pair of 8s is a bit weak hand to play OOP without preflop aggression as well. Or am I wrong?
      You are right about pair of 8s to be weak hand to play OOP, but they could give me 2 additional outs because another 8 on turn or river would give me a set, which is usually considered made hand and best hand. Even if I would get a K in other two cards I would have two pairs which are also considered strong hand. For this reason I decided to push and I posted my hand to be evaluated.

      Anyway, now I know that UTG+1 already had straight on flop and only my 9 outs for FD were good and I should have folded, but before showdown I didn't know that and there were many hands I would have a monster draw against. At least that's what I think, but would like to know what others think about it? Should I always discount all the outs beside FD in situation like this?
    • SunWukung
      SunWukung
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 28
      Wouldn't be a better move to push directly then? Or bet standard 2/3 of the pot to test the waters? Without checking first? You'd add some fold equity to all those outs and if he didn't hit, you'll maybe get free cards on turn and river.

      But let's see the opinion of someone more experienced.
    • Crozac
      Crozac
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.12.2007 Posts: 120
      It's hard to play draws OOP especially if you didn't raised preflop. I would just c/f because bord is very scary. But, that's just me :)
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Considering I went all-in maybe would really be better to play aggressively by betting first to act. But honestly, at first I decided to play this hand passively, to check because you usually get good odds to call in a multiway pot at this limit(one guy makes a raise 1/2-2/3 of the pot and one or two call that bet). Unfortunately this time the villain made a good protection bet and both others folded, so I was left with the decision of pushing and folding and decided to push, because I didn't think he was so strong.

      ...well, this was my mind flow during this hand, so it's going to be amusing to see what the pros have to say about it. :)
    • 098799
      098799
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2007 Posts: 1,245
      Check/raise is the best option here. Well played.

      Your draw is clearly monser-like with probably 14 outs. Against top pair, top kicker you have more than 50% equity here! Against two pair you have something like 45-50% equity - still very playable. Only if there's already a set, you're big (1:2.3) dog, but we can never assume that.

      Additional fold equity makes check/raise here the best option possible.

      btw: are there any pros in sss forum? ;)
    • burek2000
      burek2000
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Originally posted by 098799
      btw: are there any pros in sss forum? ;)
      Sure, PS made you a professional judge, so no need to be shy about it even if you don't earn food and rent with SSS as a player. ;)
    • 098799
      098799
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2007 Posts: 1,245
      Originally posted by burek2000
      (...)
      even if you don't earn food and rent with SSS as a player. ;)
      Thought that's the definition of going a professional ;) . I'm rather volunteer one.