Downswing

    • PoulH
      PoulH
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2012 Posts: 3
      Hi there

      I have joined PS for about a month ago and really enjoy the site and all the possilibilites.

      My name is Poul and I'm from Denmark - I am a loosing player and I want to change that. I have been playing online poker for 2-3 years.

      So, when you guys are on a downswing do you tend to take a break or ride it out?
  • 9 replies
    • Maloco87
      Maloco87
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2011 Posts: 514
      I think you have to ride it out most of the time but it wouldn't hurt to take a bit of time off and study the articles here on PS maybe going back to the basics and so on will help you refocus your game
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      Didn't think there was such a thing as a "DOWNswing" if you are a losing player....
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,877
      Originally posted by PoulH
      So, when you guys are on a downswing do you tend to take a break or ride it out?
      Most important question is how does downswing affect you? Can you play your A-game after few bad beats or setups? If you feel your game level does not suffer you can continue playing.

      It is good idea to keep following your game as you play to quickly notice if you go into "tilt". If you do notice to do bad plays it is best to stop the session. Take some time off and analyze hands later on. Obviously use time to study whatever you run good or not :)
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by jonnyjm
      Didn't think there was such a thing as a "DOWNswing" if you are a losing player....
      And winning players don't have UPswings.

      As for what we do it really doesn't matter. What matters is how the downswing is effects you and if your no longer able to play your best or start monkey tilting you should obv take a break. If not feel free to ride it out.
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      i guess taking a break will not do anything in terms of variance - if it is indeed variance. the only thing a break will do is help you chill out from tilt. that said, i like to just study instead of play whenever i go on tilt or runbad. not because i think the variance will be gone when i return, just i think it's a good time to rebuild my confidence through studying.
    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      Originally posted by DrDunne
      i guess taking a break will not do anything in terms of variance - if it is indeed variance. the only thing a break will do is help you chill out from tilt. that said, i like to just study instead of play whenever i go on tilt or runbad. not because i think the variance will be gone when i return, just i think it's a good time to rebuild my confidence through studying.

      + helps to find/correct leaks and learn more! ;)

      In fact, without downswing, we probably will not improve as much because the downswing! (I hope that make sense) :)
    • PoulH
      PoulH
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2012 Posts: 3
      Since I joined PS I play micro SnGs, I did the beginner strategy quizz and ICM light with 90%+. I also analyse my sessions and play ABC poker.

      Thank You for all your replies :)
    • TovarishStulov
      TovarishStulov
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 6
      Some super fun hands:

      PokerStars Hand #84430194883: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2012/08/07 20:58:45 ET
      Table 'Skadi II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
      Seat 1: luisi_ps ($26.28 in chips)
      Seat 2: ShulleR221 ($19.45 in chips)
      Seat 3: Voim_Aimir ($6.88 in chips)
      Seat 4: Pmifraa ($9.94 in chips)
      Seat 5: madmax710 ($4.78 in chips)
      Seat 6: ATs973 ($5 in chips)
      ShulleR221: posts small blind $0.02
      Voim_Aimir: posts big blind $0.05
      *** HOLE CARDS ***
      Dealt to Voim_Aimir [Ad 6d 7d As]
      Pmifraa: raises $0.12 to $0.17
      madmax710: folds
      ATs973: folds
      luisi_ps: calls $0.17
      ShulleR221: calls $0.15
      Voim_Aimir: calls $0.12
      *** FLOP *** [2s 7h Ac]
      ShulleR221: checks
      Voim_Aimir: checks
      Pmifraa: checks
      luisi_ps: checks
      *** TURN *** [2s 7h Ac] [8c]
      ShulleR221: checks
      Voim_Aimir: bets $0.65
      Pmifraa: folds
      luisi_ps: raises $1.95 to $2.60
      ShulleR221: folds
      Voim_Aimir said, "this should be fun"
      Voim_Aimir: raises $4.11 to $6.71 and is all-in
      luisi_ps: calls $4.11
      *** RIVER *** [2s 7h Ac 8c] [8h]
      *** SHOW DOWN ***
      Voim_Aimir: shows [Ad 6d 7d As] (a full house, Aces full of Eights)
      luisi_ps: shows [8s 8d 6c 3h] (four of a kind, Eights)
      luisi_ps collected $13.51 from pot
      *** SUMMARY ***
      Total pot $14.10 | Rake $0.59
      Board [2s 7h Ac 8c 8h]
      Seat 1: luisi_ps (button) showed [8s 8d 6c 3h] and won ($13.51) with four of a kind, Eights
      Seat 2: ShulleR221 (small blind) folded on the Turn
      Seat 3: Voim_Aimir (big blind) showed [Ad 6d 7d As] and lost with a full house, Aces full of Eights
      Seat 4: Pmifraa folded on the Turn
      Seat 5: madmax710 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
      Seat 6: ATs973 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

      I deposited on Poker Stars for the first time in a while. I did really well when I first joined, ($20->$2000), but ever since I did a cashout it's been super aggressive in churning my account. I figured, since I haven't played there in a while, there might be a chance that I've slipped down the sh!t list and it won't rig my hands quite as blatantly. No such luck.

      I was playing a typical rigged session: card dead, card dead, cooler; card dead card dead suck out; card dead, card dead, suck out; cooler, suck out, cooler. The hallmark is always the anti probability factor. Bet set, straight, flush, top two pair, wrap with flushdraw, etc. Typically get called with inside straight draw on flop, that inevitably turns into a different flush draw on turn, pushes you all in, makes nuts on river without fail. Bet it aggressively, call down, play it how you like, it quickly becomes obvious that no-one can miss against you, regardless of the probability.

      This last hand caps it though: all in on turn, my set of aces against his set of eights (no other draw). Lost against quads.

      I finished my night on a lovely cooler: turned second set of tens on K35T board with TT42 (that's second set and an open-ender) on a big family pot where the flop got checked. He of course turned over KK. No suck out for me. These are just from one session and in no way isolated even within that session, there just isn't enough room to post every cooler and bad beat, never mind the card dead runs ( this is omaha by the way - try flopping no pair no draw consistently, that takes skill.)

      PokerStars Hand #84430688011: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2012/08/07 21:15:46 ET
      Table 'Skadi II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
      Seat 1: $AbRaO$ TT ($15.45 in chips)
      Seat 2: ShulleR221 ($16.92 in chips)
      Seat 3: Voim_Aimir ($4.16 in chips)
      Seat 4: Pmifraa ($9.56 in chips)
      Seat 5: madmax710 ($7.09 in chips)
      Seat 6: ATs973 ($5 in chips)
      ShulleR221: posts small blind $0.02
      Voim_Aimir: posts big blind $0.05
      *** HOLE CARDS ***
      Dealt to Voim_Aimir [2d Ts Tc 4h]
      Pmifraa: calls $0.05
      madmax710: folds
      ATs973: raises $0.17 to $0.22
      $AbRaO$ TT: calls $0.22
      ShulleR221: calls $0.20
      Voim_Aimir: calls $0.17
      Pmifraa: calls $0.17
      *** FLOP *** [Ks 3h 5d]
      ShulleR221: checks
      Voim_Aimir: checks
      Pmifraa: checks
      ATs973: checks
      $AbRaO$ TT: checks
      *** TURN *** [Ks 3h 5d] [Td]
      ShulleR221: checks
      Voim_Aimir: bets $1.05
      Pmifraa: raises $3.15 to $4.20
      ATs973: folds
      $AbRaO$ TT: folds
      Voim_Aimir said, "this is the end folks"
      ShulleR221: calls $4.20
      Voim_Aimir: calls $2.89 and is all-in
      *** RIVER *** [Ks 3h 5d Td] [4s]
      Voim_Aimir said, "watch him suck out"
      ShulleR221: checks
      Pmifraa: checks
      *** SHOW DOWN ***
      ShulleR221: shows [3c 4d Jd Ac] (two pair, Fours and Threes)
      Pmifraa: shows [Kc Ah Kh 6s] (three of a kind, Kings)
      Pmifraa collected $0.50 from side pot
      Voim_Aimir: mucks hand
      Voim_Aimir leaves the table
      Pmifraa collected $12.38 from main pot
      *** SUMMARY ***
      Total pot $13.44 Main pot $12.38. Side pot $0.50. | Rake $0.56
      Board [Ks 3h 5d Td 4s]
      Seat 1: $AbRaO$ TT (button) folded on the Turn
      Seat 2: ShulleR221 (small blind) showed [3c 4d Jd Ac] and lost with two pair, Fours and Threes
      Seat 3: Voim_Aimir (big blind) mucked [2d Ts Tc 4h]
      Seat 4: Pmifraa showed [Kc Ah Kh 6s] and won ($12.88) with three of a kind, Kings
      Seat 5: madmax710 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
      Seat 6: ATs973 folded on the Turn

      For my fellow fish getting raped on poker sites by the "better" players: yes it is rigged. Not to increase rake, but to prevent cash-outs, because they're using your deposits for their own financial investments. I've had this pattern repeat on multiple sites, most recently bet365 where I turned $10 in free startup from PokerStrategy into $340 before the account churning software flagged me and I magically turned into the worst player in the world. I mean really, what kind of idiot goes in pre-flop with double suited AAQT against A755 with three clubs. Shouldn't I know he'd flop quads? Why was I so stupid as to ship it with top set of aces against KK96 on AQ6 rainbow flop? Any poker expert would know he'd go runner runner flush. Educate me pros.

      You'll never convince the apologists, so I'm simply putting this out there as reassurance to good players getting their accounts churned. You are not having a run of bad luck, this is systemic. I've been playing on multiple sites for 4 years now and without fail I run up a bankroll when I join a site then get flagged and end up with monster coolers and suck outs in every session after.

      You can listen to the apologists if you like, but I've found that their argument can be boiled down to the iconic words of Groucho Marx: "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes."

      As a point of action, I urge poker players in the community to lobby for a site that does not invest your deposits, that will at least eliminate much of the motivation for the aggressive hand rigging of the current crop of sites.
    • bettingstation
      bettingstation
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.12.2009 Posts: 125
      at online poker... it usually like this especially in omaha... there's a lot of bad beat... I can recommend to play at low stake so that if you have bad beat... you lose small...