Mss

  • 8 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,056
      3Bet.

      I tried to make a video, but I couldn't find anything else to add.
    • FingersMalone
      FingersMalone
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2011 Posts: 381
      Thanks Vorpal.

      It seems like you're not the only that can't find anything to add.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,056
      I was only being partly smart-ass.
      Smart-left-cheek you might say.
      Comments about tongue-in-cheek are hereby ruled out.

      The strategy for MSS has a lot of raise-fold in it.
      so 3-Betting people w/ 50-80 BB stacks gets money.
      If they shove, you can safely fold.
    • FingersMalone
      FingersMalone
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2011 Posts: 381
      I didn't think you were being smart ass, actually.

      Thanks for the advice and I'll start doing that. My main issue with the half pinters is that if they are on my left they can call my open with a wide range and attack c-bets as the stack to pot ratio approaches 1:1. Moreover, I'm playing on a network that has a higher than average number of mid stack players..

      Small opening bets and a tighter range helps but it is frustrating and negatively impacts on my bb/100.
    • JohnDoe1313
      JohnDoe1313
      Platinum
      Joined: 04.01.2011 Posts: 5,144
      Well, I think you could watch some MSS videos to see how those players think and then adjust. But if I were you I would assure myself that those guys are actually PokerStrategy MSS players, not recreational players/bad regs who don't rebuy to max.
    • FingersMalone
      FingersMalone
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2011 Posts: 381
      Originally posted by JohnDoe1313
      Well, I think you could watch some MSS videos to see how those players think and then adjust. But if I were you I would assure myself that those guys are actually PokerStrategy MSS players, not recreational players/bad regs who don't rebuy to max.
      Thanks JD. I watched a video this morning. It wasn't one of the best but it did help a bit.

      They may not all be regs as I'm playing on anonymous tables and they have a massive impact on tracking, which pro mss rely upon. They are better than most casual players though.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,056
      Anonymous would be a problem.
      On Poker770 the MSS are bad, but still a force to be reckoned with.

      The main thing I've found there is that small pocket pairs have no set value vs mss since you don't get the right odds to call.


             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP3    62.43%  62.16%   0.27% { 88+, ATs+, AJo+ }
      CO     37.57%  37.30%   0.27% { 66-22 }



      However if you 3Bet, he should be folding AQ,AJ, ATs,88-JJ (60 combox) and shoving QQ-AA,AK (34 combos).

      So assuming he is playing the strategy properly his is folding 64% of the time to a 3Bet. If you have no equity at al, you need him to fold 75% of the time. but you have 38% equity, so (if I did the math right) you only need him to fold 58% of the time. This is assuming the MSS raises 4BB and you 3bet 3x.

      Do I personally do that?
      No. In order to realize the 38% equity, he has to call the 3Bets. If he shoves, you have to fold.

      I'm convinced it is long-term +EV to 3Bet true MSS open raisers though, if they OR MP1 or later.

      When I tried to play MSS to move up to NL 25, I got 3Bet whenever I open raised from MP or later. It made me doubt that MSS was even profitable.

      I'll see if I can find enough hands in HM2 that fit the situation.
      Out of my lifetime total of 100,000 hands, and even including the shit-kicking I took at NL 25, my winrate 3Betting when effective stack size is 45 - 55 BB is 372 bb/100 (a total of 41 hands).

      If I leave out NL 25 where I was the MSS, the winrate 3Betting MSS is even better.

      All of the above is SO player dependant though.
    • FingersMalone
      FingersMalone
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2011 Posts: 381
      That's extremely helpful Vorpal, thanks a lot.