[NL2-NL10] NL10: small pair on 444 flop

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1850508
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      CO: $10.15 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 24, 3B: 11, AF: 1.3, CBetFlop: 75(8), Hands: 59
      BTN: $7.51 - VPIP: 38, PFR: 18, 3B: 5, AF: 1.3, Hands: 55
      SB: $23.79 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 20, 3B: 6, AF: 0.0, Hands: 102
      Hero (BB): $10.15 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 20, 3B: 5, AF: 3.8, Hands: 105891
      UTG: $9.85 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 16, 3B: 5, AF: 5.0, Hands: 177
      MP: $16.10 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 14, 3B: 6, AF: 1.9, Hands: 556

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with 4 :club: 4 :heart:
      2 folds, CO raises to $0.30, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.20

      Flop: ($0.65) 5 :heart: 5 :diamond: 5 :club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $0.40, Hero folds

      So this was an unfamiliar spot for me. I expect myself to be ahead against my opponent's range overall on the flop, but once he cBets I have quite some difficulty finding the best play.

      I somewhat fear check/calling because almost any card that comes is an overcard that my opponent can use for 2nd-barreling or it can even give him a pair.
      Also it is difficult to say what his cBetting range on such a flop is – I could very well imagine that opponents might usually check behind on this flop with weaker hands since in their eyes I am so likely to have a PP, but maybe I am just leveling myself.

      Check/raising sort of does not make sense because villain is unlikely to fold too many better pairs and what do I represent? Worse isn't calling either.

      Anyway, I decided to play it safe here and just fold until I hear your ideas. Thanks in advance!
  • 13 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      Anything you pick here is going to be fine, even if you Check/Fold it and play for just set-mining is totally fine. We still going to earn profit in long run. :) Also avoid doing some stupid moves.

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Would check/calling be fine? But more importantly – would check/raising be really fine? I can see check/calling as being doable but check/raising seems somewhat strange.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Would check/calling be fine? But more importantly – would check/raising be really fine? I can see check/calling as being doable but check/raising seems somewhat strange.
      Check/Raising depends a lot on the opponent and Check/Call puts you into tough decisions on the turn where you could make easily mistakes. But yeah, in those spots most likely Check/Calling is the smallest variance cause the guy could easily call vs raise even being IP.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      If check/raising, then what purpose does the check/raise have? I guess that check/raising overcards would then be even better than check/raising a small pair since we can't probably expect to get called by worse all that often anyway, and overcards at least give us additional outs.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      If check/raising, then what purpose does the check/raise have? I guess that check/raising overcards would then be even better than check/raising a small pair since we can't probably expect to get called by worse all that often anyway, and overcards at least give us additional outs.
      Check/Raising purpose of course protecting our hand? :) The guy has pretty wide CBetting range and not only made hands. With Check/Calling you are giving him the chance to just hit and rarely even know where you stand if he for example 2nd barrels.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      If we check/raise the flop without really knowing the opponent should we be inclined to fire a lot of turns? I guess not since villain is likely calling us with a PP so we don't get all that much fold equity.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      If we check/raise the flop without really knowing the opponent should we be inclined to fire a lot of turns? I guess not since villain is likely calling us with a PP so we don't get all that much fold equity.
      Why not? That's the purpose of the Check/Raise on the flop, wasn't it for value?
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Why not? That's the purpose of the Check/Raise on the flop, wasn't it for value?


      Was it not for protection? I would find it difficult for the opponent to call her with 22-33 or just overcards so I am not all too sure there is too much value here. Or am I missing something?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Why not? That's the purpose of the Check/Raise on the flop, wasn't it for value?


      Was it not for protection? I would find it difficult for the opponent to call her with 22-33 or just overcards so I am not all too sure there is too much value here. Or am I missing something?
      Protection = for value as well = we ain't turning our hand into bluff = we 2nd barreling it.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      For us to merge our range like that we should have quite some reads or history on/with the opponent, i.e. that he indeed can call with worse on the flop, right? Just blindly throwing in the check/raise will not be all that profitable?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      For us to merge our range like that we should have quite some reads or history on/with the opponent, i.e. that he indeed can call with worse on the flop, right? Just blindly throwing in the check/raise will not be all that profitable?
      Which I wrote above.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Thus I conclude that overall I should really be just check/folding unless I fully understand what I'm doing? Even blindly check/calling and hoping for a free showdown just like that would not be profitable, right?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Thus I conclude that overall I should really be just check/folding unless I fully understand what I'm doing? Even blindly check/calling and hoping for a free showdown just like that would not be profitable, right?
      No, that Check/Raising depends a lot on the opponent and the dynamics.