This site uses cookies to improve your browsing experience. By continuing to browse the website, you accept such cookies. For more details and to change your settings, see our Cookie Policy and Privacy Policy. Close

[NL2-NL10] NL10: small pair on 444 flop

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1850508
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      CO: $10.15 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 24, 3B: 11, AF: 1.3, CBetFlop: 75(8), Hands: 59
      BTN: $7.51 - VPIP: 38, PFR: 18, 3B: 5, AF: 1.3, Hands: 55
      SB: $23.79 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 20, 3B: 6, AF: 0.0, Hands: 102
      Hero (BB): $10.15 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 20, 3B: 5, AF: 3.8, Hands: 105891
      UTG: $9.85 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 16, 3B: 5, AF: 5.0, Hands: 177
      MP: $16.10 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 14, 3B: 6, AF: 1.9, Hands: 556

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with 4 :club: 4 :heart:
      2 folds, CO raises to $0.30, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.20

      Flop: ($0.65) 5 :heart: 5 :diamond: 5 :club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $0.40, Hero folds

      So this was an unfamiliar spot for me. I expect myself to be ahead against my opponent's range overall on the flop, but once he cBets I have quite some difficulty finding the best play.

      I somewhat fear check/calling because almost any card that comes is an overcard that my opponent can use for 2nd-barreling or it can even give him a pair.
      Also it is difficult to say what his cBetting range on such a flop is – I could very well imagine that opponents might usually check behind on this flop with weaker hands since in their eyes I am so likely to have a PP, but maybe I am just leveling myself.

      Check/raising sort of does not make sense because villain is unlikely to fold too many better pairs and what do I represent? Worse isn't calling either.

      Anyway, I decided to play it safe here and just fold until I hear your ideas. Thanks in advance!
  • 13 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      Anything you pick here is going to be fine, even if you Check/Fold it and play for just set-mining is totally fine. We still going to earn profit in long run. :) Also avoid doing some stupid moves.

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Would check/calling be fine? But more importantly – would check/raising be really fine? I can see check/calling as being doable but check/raising seems somewhat strange.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Would check/calling be fine? But more importantly – would check/raising be really fine? I can see check/calling as being doable but check/raising seems somewhat strange.
      Check/Raising depends a lot on the opponent and Check/Call puts you into tough decisions on the turn where you could make easily mistakes. But yeah, in those spots most likely Check/Calling is the smallest variance cause the guy could easily call vs raise even being IP.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      If check/raising, then what purpose does the check/raise have? I guess that check/raising overcards would then be even better than check/raising a small pair since we can't probably expect to get called by worse all that often anyway, and overcards at least give us additional outs.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      If check/raising, then what purpose does the check/raise have? I guess that check/raising overcards would then be even better than check/raising a small pair since we can't probably expect to get called by worse all that often anyway, and overcards at least give us additional outs.
      Check/Raising purpose of course protecting our hand? :) The guy has pretty wide CBetting range and not only made hands. With Check/Calling you are giving him the chance to just hit and rarely even know where you stand if he for example 2nd barrels.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      If we check/raise the flop without really knowing the opponent should we be inclined to fire a lot of turns? I guess not since villain is likely calling us with a PP so we don't get all that much fold equity.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      If we check/raise the flop without really knowing the opponent should we be inclined to fire a lot of turns? I guess not since villain is likely calling us with a PP so we don't get all that much fold equity.
      Why not? That's the purpose of the Check/Raise on the flop, wasn't it for value?
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Why not? That's the purpose of the Check/Raise on the flop, wasn't it for value?


      Was it not for protection? I would find it difficult for the opponent to call her with 22-33 or just overcards so I am not all too sure there is too much value here. Or am I missing something?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Why not? That's the purpose of the Check/Raise on the flop, wasn't it for value?


      Was it not for protection? I would find it difficult for the opponent to call her with 22-33 or just overcards so I am not all too sure there is too much value here. Or am I missing something?
      Protection = for value as well = we ain't turning our hand into bluff = we 2nd barreling it.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      For us to merge our range like that we should have quite some reads or history on/with the opponent, i.e. that he indeed can call with worse on the flop, right? Just blindly throwing in the check/raise will not be all that profitable?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      For us to merge our range like that we should have quite some reads or history on/with the opponent, i.e. that he indeed can call with worse on the flop, right? Just blindly throwing in the check/raise will not be all that profitable?
      Which I wrote above.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Thus I conclude that overall I should really be just check/folding unless I fully understand what I'm doing? Even blindly check/calling and hoping for a free showdown just like that would not be profitable, right?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Thus I conclude that overall I should really be just check/folding unless I fully understand what I'm doing? Even blindly check/calling and hoping for a free showdown just like that would not be profitable, right?
      No, that Check/Raising depends a lot on the opponent and the dynamics.