How do i figure out odds preflop?

  • 15 replies
    • mute20
      mute20
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.01.2011 Posts: 563
      you can use pokerstrategys own equilab http://www.pokerstrategy.com/software/10/
    • hvard92
      hvard92
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2012 Posts: 789
      Isn't that just percentages? Isn't it a better way to calculate this than type in the cards into equilab every time?
    • redskwerl
      redskwerl
      Black
      Joined: 03.03.2008 Posts: 3,802
      it shows your equity as a percentage, so yes, it's 'just percentages'. but isn't that what you wanted? :)

      there's no other 'easy' way to calculate your preflop equity
    • hvard92
      hvard92
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2012 Posts: 789
      You are probably right.

      I've just learned how to calculate profitable calls like if pot odds is higher than winodds, it's a call. I don't need any software to find out that.
      So i was thinking that preflop odds or what i should call it was kinda the same thing.

      When i look at pokershows. I constantly hear the commentator says forexample (preflop): "He is getting better than 3:1 on a call" or something. Doesn't seems like he is sitting with equilab because he says it right after the bet. And the pros is thinking for like 3 seconds to do the math.

      I appreciate all comments
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      well, seems that you guys are talking about "preflop equity" while op is talking about "preflop odds".

      so op, you know how to calculate pot odds, right? that's the same for preflop flop river or 5th street on stud, pot : callamount :f_biggrin:
      but whether it is a profitable call depends (mostly) on your equity vs the opponent's range.

      the farther you are from the river the more factors weigh in, like edge/position/implied odds/... which may help or prevent the realization of that equity.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,068
      lets say you are in BB.

      BTN raises to 3 bb. SB folds

      so total pot is 3 + 0.5 + 1 = 4.5 bb

      in BB you have to call 2 bb.

      So you are getting odds 2:4.5 and its the same as 1:2.25

      Thats what I think it is, if you have holdem manager, open the replayer and there is pot odds when you replay the hand. Check it and probably you'll understand.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,904
      If I understand the question right...

      Convert "equity" to "odds", just divide one equity by the other.

      Example:
      If you have 25% equity, then the other players have 75% equity combined, so you are a 3:1 dog to win the hand.

      You can't really use "outs" preflop because with so many cards yet to come, there are just too many combinations.

      If you don't have Equilab already, get it.

      One of the best things in Equilab is the Equity trainer.
      Use it to practice estimating your pre-flop equity.

      post-flop though, you can use your outs to calculate your hand odds and compare them to pot odds.

      This is covered in the strategy article "Odd and Outs"
    • hvard92
      hvard92
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2012 Posts: 789
      Alright. So preflop odds arent that accurate then, according to what my opponents range is and the implied odds?:-)
    • tieppofer
      tieppofer
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 282
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      lets say you are in BB.

      BTN raises to 3 bb. SB folds

      so total pot is 3 + 0.5 + 1 = 4.5 bb

      in BB you have to call 2 bb.

      So you are getting odds 2:4.5 and its the same as 1:2.25

      Thats what I think it is, if you have holdem manager, open the replayer and there is pot odds when you replay the hand. Check it and probably you'll understand.
      Just a lil note, it's 4.5:2 and 2.25:1 :p
    • hvard92
      hvard92
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2012 Posts: 789
      i hear you. but what odds is ideal to call with? im sorry if i ask stupid questions.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Its not a stupid question and its not really about odds. Its about equity, ods, playability, positions and initiative.

      Lets say for example you have 56o in the BB and the BU opens to 3bb. This means your getting 2.25:1 odds or in other words you need to win the hand 31% of the time = you need 31% equity. Now if at this point you'd be playing 3bb deep and you would be facing an all in i'd be an easy call since 56o has 35% vs an average BU opening range.

      Now even if you get the ''right'' odds with your 56o your still never calling it for several reasons. First your playing OOP which makes a shitty hand like that impossible to play and your almost never getting to showdown, you don't have initiative which means your folding to c-bet a lot and it makes it difficult for you to bluff, furthermore you don't have the best hand and all that makes it unlikely that the slightly winning call preflop based on odds turns out to be a big loser since your going to be losing more money after the flop.

      Another good example is lets say your playing FR and you have AJs on mp2 and are facing a 3b from the CO whose a decent reg with somewhat tightish 3b range. Now same as the above aplies here for reasons to just fold or 4bet/fold and almost never call. Its pretty much the same reasons, you dont have initiative, you don't have position and even if you are ahead of his range by some % you don't really have the best hand. Even a bigger problem in this scenario is that when you miss the flop you pretty much always lose the flop and even worse when you hit an A or a J for top pair you only get 1 street of value when you have the best hand and you lose at least 2 streets or even get stacked when your dominated.

      Hope that clarifies things a bit and makes you understand that it isnt only about odds and math. Also i didn't talk much about the EDGE you have against an opponent and that you should be more likely to call and play lose against fish and tighten up against regs.
    • hvard92
      hvard92
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2012 Posts: 789
      Thanks alot MatejM47. It really helped me understand alot more, easy to understand and it was not too complicated. Thanks man, really helped.
    • hvard92
      hvard92
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2012 Posts: 789
      one more thing. Lets say im playing at a shorthanded table and im in bb and the table is very
      fishy. bb is 0.10 and mp2 raises to 0.80 and rest calls. is it profitable to call with 78s then?
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by hvard92
      one more thing. Lets say im playing at a shorthanded table and im in bb and the table is very
      fishy. bb is 0.10 and mp2 raises to 0.80 and rest calls. is it profitable to call with 78s then?
      Well i think its a fold for the next couple of reasons. Low SPR(Stack to pot ratio) your going to have 9$ left on the flop into a 4$ pot which means your pretty much committed when ever you flop a flush draw or OSED.

      Another problem of low SPR when having a drawing hand is that you have 0% fold equity against his overpairs so your pretty much never winning the hand w/o showdown since given his big raise it makes it kinda likely that he has QQ+ and his never gonna fold that on the flop.

      Your flush outs aren't really good when the pot goes 5 way and you can get it in really bad vs a better FD and a better made hand. Basically you risk getting overflush while you will never overflush them with you low SC.

      Overall what ends up happening most of the time is you flopping some weakish draw and get it in vs overpair or even worse against sets/better draws or both.
    • hvard92
      hvard92
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2012 Posts: 789
      Thanks again! Good to know, and i dont need to learn it the hard way now.