[NL2-NL10] NL10 SH - TT on A flop

    • MoneyStef
      MoneyStef
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.01.2011 Posts: 1,501
      Villain is 31/19/12.5/3 (VPIP/PFR/3bet/AF) on 50 hands.

      I check-call the flop because I guess he would Cbet almost his complete range (had 2/2 Cbets in my database). Turn I guess I’m behind, but hope to hit a straight. River no option but to check-fold I guess.

      Is the flop call ok? Guess I have the implied odds to make the turn call, right?

      Thanks in advance for your comments

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
      Hero ($11.24)
      BB ($32.92)
      UTG ($10.96)
      UTG+1 ($10.22)
      CO ($14.21)
      BTN ($9.85)

      Dealt to Hero T:heart: T:club:

      fold, fold, CO raises to $0.30, fold, Hero calls $0.25, fold

      FLOP ($0.70) 7:club: 9:spade: A:diamond:

      Hero checks, CO bets $0.40, Hero calls $0.40

      TURN ($1.50) 7:club: 9:spade: A:diamond: 8:spade:

      Hero checks, CO bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80

      RIVER ($3.10) 7:club: 9:spade: A:diamond: 8:spade: 5:diamond:

      Hero checks, CO bets $1.50, Hero folds

      CO wins $2.94
  • 7 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello MoneyStef,

      Well, even if you Call the flop then I'd myself advice rather lay it down. For the given reason you made on the turn. You don't even have implied odds there and most likely you ain't head but you still Call it. :P You of course also don't have implied odds. :(

      Best Regards.
    • MoneyStef
      MoneyStef
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.01.2011 Posts: 1,501
      So just fold flop? Does it change when the overcard is a K/Q rather than an A?

      Is it profitable in general to make the call pf from the SB? Or should I 3bet instead?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      So just fold flop? Does it change when the overcard is a K/Q rather than an A?

      Instead of me answering you the part try to put the opponent on a range and then answer yourself the question. Can always post your result and I can comment it. :) At least will learn more than the way I am telling you everything. :P

      Is it profitable in general to make the call pf from the SB? Or should I 3bet instead?

      Why shouldn't it be profitable? :D
    • MoneyStef
      MoneyStef
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.01.2011 Posts: 1,501
      The range I would give him:

      22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,A8o+,KTo+,QJo. This amounts to 22% raise from CO.

      If an A shows on the flop, he has 54% equity on me. This together with the position makes it a fold.
      If a K or a Q shows on the flop instead of the A, we have 60% equity, so a call is defendable but a fold could still be advisable because of his aggression and his positional advantage.
      A J gives us 65%, so I guess we must call in this spot.

      According to my back-of-the envelope calculations, we have about 55% chance of getting an overcard Q or higher on the flop, of course higher to get an overcard J or higher: 65%.

      That's why I was wondering whether it is +EV to call preflop, if we are going to give up postflop with overcards. Even if the board comes 9 high, the hand does not play that comfortably because of being OOP and because it's not clear if villain would Cbet these kinds of boards. If we hit a set, we are probably getting money from his Cbets, but his general range is weak, so it's not clear if we can mostly get more than just the flop Cbet.

      So can you help my by explaining which postflop situations are profitable enough for us to justify a call?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by MoneyStef
      The range I would give him:

      22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,A8o+,KTo+,QJo. This amounts to 22% raise from CO.

      If an A shows on the flop, he has 54% equity on me. This together with the position makes it a fold.
      If a K or a Q shows on the flop instead of the A, we have 60% equity, so a call is defendable but a fold could still be advisable because of his aggression and his positional advantage.
      A J gives us 65%, so I guess we must call in this spot.

      According to my back-of-the envelope calculations, we have about 55% chance of getting an overcard Q or higher on the flop, of course higher to get an overcard J or higher: 65%.

      That's why I was wondering whether it is +EV to call preflop, if we are going to give up postflop with overcards. Even if the board comes 9 high, the hand does not play that comfortably because of being OOP and because it's not clear if villain would Cbet these kinds of boards. If we hit a set, we are probably getting money from his Cbets, but his general range is weak, so it's not clear if we can mostly get more than just the flop Cbet.

      So can you help my by explaining which postflop situations are profitable enough for us to justify a call?
      I would instead advice you to start to read articles and you will get answers too all your questions: link.

      To describe you what to do on specific board and when to Call postflop and when not would take me forever. Poker isn't that easy mate. :) Understand the basics first and then continue with more advanced stuff. It's always going to be "depends" in poker. We may play differently all the boards which comes down, dependent on the opponent.
    • MoneyStef
      MoneyStef
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.01.2011 Posts: 1,501
      Hi Veriz,

      I've already read a lot of the stuff, but even the article "how to play JJ & TT" does not zoom into this specific problem of playing them from the blinds against a single raiser.

      Can you still please answer my original questions for this specific hand:
      • Do you think a call is the best option pre-flop?
      • On this board, it's a fold on the flop? (not sure if I understand your original replay correctly)
      • If it is a K or Q instead of the A, would you still fold the flop?


      Sorry about insisting, but situations like this occur a lot, and I'm never sure how to play it.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Do you think a call is the best option pre-flop?

      As I have pointed out already that of course it is. I don't even understand how you can ever consider this not being profitable. :P 3betting = we are doing it for value, so do you think you are that good enough to understand if you are doing it for value?

      On this board, it's a fold on the flop? (not sure if I understand your original replay correctly)

      Yes, we should be folding cause as your play even proves that you are just making tons of mistakes later on.

      If it is a K or Q instead of the A, would you still fold the flop?

      Well, try to put him on a range and then try to understand what's the best board to Call. :) Open equilab and it will tell you that what kind of equity you have against him on specific boards.