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[NL20-NL50] NL50sh - how bad is slowplaying the flop

    • Farmarchist
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640

      not my hand

      Btn: 50/10 5.0 agro fish
      Sb: 23/20 3.2ag 6.5 3bet 11.1squeeze reg

      Is checking the flop a good option or is it really bad?

      Hand converted with online hand converter:

      Hand afspelen

      $0.25/$0.5 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      MP3 (Hero):

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K, K.
      MP2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, CO folds, BU calls $1.50, SB calls $1.25, BB folds.

      Flop: ($5) J, 5, K (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks, BU checks.

      Turn: ($5) 8 (3 players)
      SB bets $3.44, Hero raises to $10.00, BU folds, SB raises to $16.56, Hero raises to $49.50, SB calls $32.94.

      River: ($104) T (2 players)

      [SPOILER]Final Pot: $104.
  • 9 replies
    • Farmarchist
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Hero's thoughts:

      Ofcourse I'm also betting this flop most of the time but not this time. Agro fish On the btn, he can easily make a play. If not I always take over on the turn and it looks pretty weak. + they can still improve and it is a really dry board.
      So all this speaks for this orthodox line
    • duder1n0
      Joined: 07.07.2009 Posts: 5,335
      I think both betting or checking flop could be a valid play here. Against two opponent, one of them being a fish I think I'd rather bet it, and try to build the pot.

      What would you play, if the fish stabs on the flop after you checked? Ch/call, and slowplay, or chR flop right away?
    • veriz
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Farmarchist,

      Bet the flop, Bet the turn and so on. With your raise on the turn it makes quite obvious your range being capped only to sets. :D There are tons of hands which pay on the flop so no need to slowplay.

      Best Regards.
    • Farmarchist
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Translation of Dutch judges their evaluations:

      There is a small chance SB has a good hand here, so why not check and let him hit the A if he has something like AJ?
      BTN is an aggro fish so on a dry board you can check to him and let him barrel.
      It's not bad to give away a free turn because the board is superdry.

      NH! The flop is quite dry so giving away a free card is not bad and if he hits his straight, so be it. This doesn't happen a lot.
      By checking one of the vills can stab the turn with total air.
      Turn nice played.

      I agree with oscaar and varune. Both vills have almost no Kx combo's so you won't ever get a lot of value from the reg unless you cooler him. + The reg has not much Jx in his preflop callingrange.
      The fish can indeed call our cbet with Jx or a GS both we won't get multiple streets of value anyway. Aggrofishes valuetown themself enough in those spots when you check to them.
      The reg will never give us credit for a good hand (why would we check...) and thus he will call looser if the fish stabs


      Veriz, your thought please! :)
    • Varune
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 5,443

      The thing i have with bet/bet/bet, it's also quite obvious you have tptk+. And since you have 2 'blockers' for toppair. i dont see alot in villians range that'll call 3 bets.

      And since the board is quite dry, freecard isnt a problem. If villian has a big holding, then stacks probably go ib either way, if you slowplay or not. But by slowplaying you also get more value out their weaker part of their range imo.

      Send from mobile so excuse me for spellingmistakes ;)
    • oscaar10
      Joined: 14.01.2011 Posts: 5,453
      Farma posted a link in de dutch judging so here is my opinion.

      I don't think bet bet bet is bad here but sb 3bet 6.5% en squeezed 11% so this board doesn't really hit his range. So i don't mind checking on a dry board like this with te nuts if you have a agro fish ( according to farma) behind you.

      Because i don't think you will ever get 3 streets of value from a lot of hands ( you block TP) unless you cooler them and then you stack him anyway. So i don't mind a check here to let him take a stab at the pot.

      i would like to see your opinion on this
    • Horroroids
      Joined: 07.04.2010 Posts: 1,479
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      The reg has not much Jx in his preflop callingrange.
      This is not exactly what I posted. I said the reg does not have many Jx in his FLOPcalling range because our flopcbetting range with the fish in the hand is valueheavy thus he isn't very likely to call the flop with Jx oop.
    • veriz
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Why is everyone playing against the good player? The decent player would rarely even pay you with a lot worse there anyways. So he isn't our target. Being in SB shoes I would rarely even pay with 55/88 here cause Hero's line is capped with JJ/KK only. We will not have AK/AA here. So doesn't really make sense to Check the flop and Raise turn.

      Meanwhile if we CB we would easily do that not only with made hands, we could easily do that with draws, weaker pairs and never know maybe even looser range dependent on hero's play-style. Our range isn't capped to only JJ/KK which would be true if we play this way.

      Our main target is fish, who has at least 50% of the range which he continues (most of the broadways and a lot of Jx hands and of course even 5x hands which may Call. He calls not only 1 street with them but very often 2 streets, even with GS. So pretty easy spot where to pick Bet/Bet/Bet and at least can secure a full pot for us from the fish. Plus of course protect from any kind of draws.

      So assuming that betting is bad here I would hardly disagree on that, I'd most of the time pick the line.
    • oscaar10
      Joined: 14.01.2011 Posts: 5,453
      we all aggree betting isn't bad and we have never said that. It's true that raising the turn isn't great but if the turn is a complete blank you can easy flat in position.

      And it's true that our target is the fish because the reg almost never has a strong hand here. And that's just why i like to check because farma said the fish was really agro so i think it's more likely that an agro fish wil take a stab at the pot if checked to him then that he wil call you down with Jx

      but betting is never bad en for sure if it was higher stakes or if btn was a reg as well cbetting the flop is way better but this is 50nl