HELP! Unable to beat the $11 SNGs

    • LuborC
      LuborC
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      Hi,

      My name is Lubor, 22 years old and I live in Prague, Czech Republic.
      I've been playing poker for little over a month now and been doing ok so far I guess. My bankroll is ~$400 now. Made it by playing SNGs and by cashing in a couple of low buy-in MTT.
      I'm making money in the $5.50 SNGs my ROI is around 15% but every time I try to switch to the $11 ones I end up just losing a chunk of my bankroll. This happened three times so far.
      Does anyone have the same problem? Or had in the past? How do you deal with it? What skills you think are necessary to beat this level?
      I also noticed that I'm not very good at the TURBO SNGs I'm only about breakeven when I play these. Should I focus on the ICM more? Or what might be the reason in your opinion?

      Anyway this is what I had on my mind. Any feedback is very appreciated! I'm kind of frustrated ATM but still hope to pull through this stage with your help..
  • 12 replies
    • Barin22
      Barin22
      Platinum
      Joined: 16.02.2008 Posts: 196
      Hi im from Slovakia, soon i want to swich from 6+0,5 to 11+1, im playing turbos. If u want to share sng experience write me on ICQ 255-986-201 or barin@centrum.sk.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      improving your icm skills would definitely help. for this there are the tools sngwizard, as well as of course our icm trainer.
    • LuborC
      LuborC
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      Thanks for the answers! Wrote you a message on the icq, Barin.
      I'll try to focus on the ICM more. It's kind of shame that the article about the ICM isn't more informative. Is there a manual/guide for the ICM trainer? I would like to learn more about the different settings like the heroe's edge and other.. The link to the guide on the download site does not work. You might want to fix/remove it.
      How good are you guys with the ICM trainer? I make the right call around 85% of the times. I feel this might be where my leaks are. Are you guys close to 100% or is that just a waste of time trying to get this precise?
      I have the SNGwizard but my licence already expired. Do you think it's actually worth investing the $100 into this software on this limit?

      Thanks for the feedback again and sorry for my English, it's been a while since I actually wrote anything in English.. ?( :tongue:
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      the icm trainer should be enough for now. i get above 95% on it. this should be enough for at least up to 10+1. when your bankroll increases, it might be worth it to purchase sngwizard (it's been very helpful for me)

      hero's edge is calculated based on what their callrange is, and the difference between pushing and folding.
    • LuborC
      LuborC
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      So as I understand it the ICM trainer assumes that the opponents also play according to the ICM model when determinig their call/push ranges, right? So how should I adjust when the opponents call too loose for example. Probably start pushing tighter, right? But how much tighter? How do you approach this problem?
      Let me know when you grow really tired of the questions, ok? ;)
      And will you get mad at me if I start REALLY spamming the hand discussion?
    • p0kerQT
      p0kerQT
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,300
      I have the same problem when moving up stake levels...for me I think the problem is trying to accumulate chips too quickly. Once you play a few sng's at a higher stake level (maybe you lose) but you get more used to the average level of play and learn how to beat it/get a positive ROI.
    • ManniXXX
      ManniXXX
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 707
      Originally posted by LuborC
      So as I understand it the ICM trainer assumes that the opponents also play according to the ICM model when determinig their call/push ranges, right? So how should I adjust when the opponents call too loose for example. Probably start pushing tighter, right? But how much tighter? How do you approach this problem?
      Let me know when you grow really tired of the questions, ok? ;)
      And will you get mad at me if I start REALLY spamming the hand discussion?
      ICM trainer is based on the Nash equilibrium, which basically says that if everyone plays the exact same way, then no one has an edge over anyone but if anyone deviates from it, they are at a disadvantage. But yes you have to adapt your ranges for each player. If a villain is calling loose then you should tighten up, but if you think you're ahead of his calling range you should push it.

      Don't spam pls but questions aren't spam. Make sure to use the search function before you ask though, it's possible and sometimes likely your question has been asked and answered before :)
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      yeah pretty much #2 at manni. this isn't spamming, this is pretty useful discussion for everyone :) .

      if players call too tight, you push looser. if players call too loose, you push tighter, to a certain extent.

      at the low limits, players generally call too tight at the late-game stages, not too loose!
    • LuborC
      LuborC
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2008 Posts: 1,243
      Thanks for your help everybody!!
      I've spent a lot of time yesterday and today with the ICM trainer and am now making the right decision in about 95% of the cases. Don't know how much it is going to help me in the game yet because I didn't have the time to actually play a whole lot of games since I was busy with the trainer... :)
      One more thing is still not entirely clear to me. How do you treat limpers in the push or fold stage? Or how would you treat them in the 5.50 or 11 dollar SNGs? Do you just ignore them or do you give them some credit for having some kind of a hand?
    • JimmyPap
      JimmyPap
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.03.2008 Posts: 65
      I treat Limpers depending on the limper and what I did previous time they limped.

      eg. If I'm BB, all fold and SB limps.. I'll push..
      But if you keep doing it, he's going to trap you one of the next times..

      Generaly try to see what they are limping with.. and make notes on them.
      If you get to see their holdings more than once..(and they are weak) then Label them as HBL (High Blind Limper). You can move much easier with marginal holdings such as Q,10 on these players..

      Dont over do it.. because they'll again try to trap..

      And always remember.. the closer the limper is in early position, the more dangerous his holdings can be..

      As for going up the levels.. just expect a little less fishy players..
      There is pretty much not a big diff from 5.50 to $11 sngs concerning skill.. You just wont find like 5-6 fish in every game like in the 5.50s or 7-8 like in the 2.40s..
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      i generally treat the limpers as just another player to go through. if they are a regular, i give them a lot more respect for their early position limps, but then again.. you should be taking notes on regulars.
    • Talic
      Talic
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2008 Posts: 1,851
      Hi LuborC, my ICQ is 339 373 375 if you want to share exp's