Steal or Induce - ICM Explorer

    • JayGatsby
      JayGatsby
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 27.07.2006 Posts: 8,968
      Hi,

      I was wondering how the required equity for induce is calculated in ICM explorer.

      If I consider a given spot, eg:

      Blinds 50/100

      Winner Takes it all

      BU 12bb
      SB 12bb
      BB 12bb

      Suppose Hero is BU with A8o.

      What is the best play? raise/call or push? (for simplicity we assume that the blinds either push or fold and never flat)

      The answer depends on,

      1. how many hands the blinds call/overcall if we push
      2. how many hands the blinds repush/overpush if we minraise

      ICM explorer tells me I need 50% equity to prefer inducing over stealing.

      I have two questions here:

      1. Against which range do we need 50% equity? SBs or BBs repushing range? or both?

      2. Depending on the gap between the blinds call/push range and their repush when raised range, we need much less equity to make raise/call more profitable than push.

      Eg. the Blinds push with 20 and 30% respectively if we raise, but call our shove only with 15 and 20% respectively. With A8o we have 42 and 49% equity against these ranges, but still raise/calling is the more profitable line (we raise fold if sb repushes and BB overpushes).

      cheers

      Jay
  • 6 replies
    • JayGatsby
      JayGatsby
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 27.07.2006 Posts: 8,968
      Question answered ;)
    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      Originally posted by JayGatsby
      Question answered ;)
      Well, where is the answer? We like know the answer too pls! TY :)
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      The steal-or-induce calculation assumes that the pot is heads-up. Since both blinds can get involved, the value reported by ICM Explorer will not be a perfect fit to the situation. If you need to model the complexity of both blinds, you may want to use SNG Wizard (you have to shift the big blind to yourself, and/or do a lot of math, since SNG Wizard was only designed to analyze push/fold decisions) or Scylla's calculator. However, you could ignore the 3-way pots, and take a sort of average between the blinds' ranges, and you will get a useful approximation.

      Would you prefer to get all-in, or just to take the blinds? This depends on how much equity you have against the hands where you have a choice. How much equity you have against hands like 32o which will fold either way doesn't matter. How much equity you have against hands like AA which will push either way also doesn't matter. The relevant range for your opponent is the range which might get all-in, or might not. Maybe someone will not call all-in with 33, but if you make a small raise, he will resteal all-in. Then 33 is a hand in the marginal resteal range. Again, how your hand does against a premium hand doesn't matter, so make sure to take those hands out of the range against which you compare your hand.

      For example, if your opponent will call a push with 88+, and will resteal with 33+, then the marginal restealing range is the limited range 33-77, and you should induce the resteal with the intent to call when you have enough equity against the range 33-77. (You may raise/fold with other hands, but that is a separate decision.)
    • dydukas
      dydukas
      Platinum
      Joined: 01.05.2009 Posts: 1,271
      What's that Scylla's calculator?
    • dydukas
      dydukas
      Platinum
      Joined: 01.05.2009 Posts: 1,271
      Originally posted by dydukas
      What's that Scylla's calculator?
      EDIT: You mean this one? CardRunnersEV
    • JayGatsby
      JayGatsby
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 27.07.2006 Posts: 8,968
      Originally posted by pzhon
      The steal-or-induce calculation assumes that the pot is heads-up. Since both blinds can get involved, the value reported by ICM Explorer will not be a perfect fit to the situation. If you need to model the complexity of both blinds, you may want to use SNG Wizard (you have to shift the big blind to yourself, and/or do a lot of math, since SNG Wizard was only designed to analyze push/fold decisions) or Scylla's calculator. However, you could ignore the 3-way pots, and take a sort of average between the blinds' ranges, and you will get a useful approximation.

      Would you prefer to get all-in, or just to take the blinds? This depends on how much equity you have against the hands where you have a choice. How much equity you have against hands like 32o which will fold either way doesn't matter. How much equity you have against hands like AA which will push either way also doesn't matter. The relevant range for your opponent is the range which might get all-in, or might not. Maybe someone will not call all-in with 33, but if you make a small raise, he will resteal all-in. Then 33 is a hand in the marginal resteal range. Again, how your hand does against a premium hand doesn't matter, so make sure to take those hands out of the range against which you compare your hand.

      For example, if your opponent will call a push with 88+, and will resteal with 33+, then the marginal restealing range is the limited range 33-77, and you should induce the resteal with the intent to call when you have enough equity against the range 33-77. (You may raise/fold with other hands, but that is a separate decision.)
      Thx!!