I call too many times, even when I'm 98% sure I'm beat

    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Example 1:

      SB: $5.01 - VPIP: 11, PFR: 11, 3B: 8, AF: 0,0, Hands: 35
      BB: $2.44 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 23, 3B: 0, AF: 3,0, Hands: 13
      UTG: $2.00 - VPIP: 20, PFR: 10, 3B: 0, AF: 0,0, Hands: 10
      MP: $0.60 - VPIP: 69, PFR: 15, 3B: 0, AF: 2,5, Hands: 13
      Hero (CO): $3.10 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 17, 3B: 6, AF: 2,5, Hands: 1785
      BTN: $2.88 - VPIP: 36, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 1,0, Hands: 11

      Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with A :heart: T :club:
      1 fold, MP calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.09, BTN calls $0.09, 2 folds, MP calls $0.07

      Flop: ($0.30) K :club: T :spade: T :diamond: (3 players)
      MP checks, Hero bets $0.20, BTN calls $0.20, MP folds

      Turn: ($0.70) 3 :club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.40, BTN calls $0.40

      River: ($1.50) K :spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $2.19, Hero calls $2.19

      I put him on Kx hands, and VERY rarely QT, JT. I KNOW, that I'm beaten, and I know, I should fold. I know, it's +EV, but I still call.

      Final Pot: $5.88
      Hero mucks A :heart: T :club:
      BTN shows J :club: K :diamond:
      BTN wins $5.67
      (Rake: $0.21)

      Example 2:

      UTG: $2.64 - VPIP: 13, PFR: 9, 3B: 0, AF: 1,3, Hands: 75
      MP: $2.07 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 15, 3B: 0, AF: 1,3, Hands: 82
      CO: $0.74 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 1,0, Hands: 24
      BTN: $2.24 - VPIP: 45, PFR: 14, 3B: 25, AF: 1,9, Hands: 29
      Hero (SB): $2.37 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 17, 3B: 6, AF: 2,5, Hands: 1785
      BB: $2.90 - VPIP: 54, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 1,9, Hands: 82

      Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is SB with K :club: Q :heart:
      4 folds, Hero raises to $0.07, BB calls $0.05

      Flop: ($0.14) 2 :spade: K :heart: 4 :heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.11, BB calls $0.11

      Turn: ($0.36) 9 :spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.29, BB calls $0.29

      River: ($0.94) J :heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $0.42, Hero calls $0.42

      What would he donk here for less then 50%? It's not a bluff, I knew that I was beaten before I clicked ont he Call button.

      Final Pot: $1.78
      Hero mucks K :club: Q :heart:
      BB shows A :heart: 7 :heart:
      BB wins $1.72
      (Rake: $0.06)



      I have a very serious issue, a really huge leak, 80% of money I loose comes from this: Many times, even when I KNOW im beat, I can't click on the fold button! Really, I'm psichically unable to click on the FOLD button. Mentally, I KNOW that I'm beaten, but still, I just cant click on the fold button, hoping that he is doing a bluff or something tricky.
      At the first example, I thought like 30 sec, and got to the conclusion that I'm beat, but I still didnt fold. What is wrong with me?



      I try to put people on ranges, and I call many times even when the perceived range just crushes me. So it is mostly a mindset problem.
      Maybe I just really don't want to get bluffed, or I'm really really curious. I don't know, but I have to change this!

      Do you have any suggestions?
  • 21 replies
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi there Imimba1,

      I have no doubt many will suggest ways to combat this. Not being any sort of expert myself, may I suggest you visit this blog? It is very popular with the members.

      The quick guide to skyrocketing your (poker) productivity

      Best regards,

      Mal.
    • Yoshimitsu77
      Yoshimitsu77
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2010 Posts: 337
      i do exactly the same in cash games, just donk off everytime knowing im drawing dead. Completely different when i play SnGs though, i stay disciplined and pick all my spots reall well.
      Im beating up to $15 sngs but cant beat 1c/2c zoom........i think its because im unsure of my edge in cash games where as i know what sports are good/bad in SnGs.

      Maybe try SnGs?
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      ZOMG stations!

      i'd say that one thing is that you may not be taking nl2 "seriously". getting enough negative feedback helps
    • Krishjanis
      Krishjanis
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2010 Posts: 977
      Go play some Zoom or Rush or Fast poker or whatever, then it's kind of easier to fold. I got over calling 3bets with Zoom, because you just now next hand is a click away and no need to get all butthurt about someone raising you.
    • Saren113
      Saren113
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.03.2009 Posts: 2,867
      Listen to Jared Tendler audiobook, you can find it on amazon for free.
      And simply fold when a passive players start to play back on you, he is prob doing it with 2p+. And the thing with donking the river when they have check called oop is simply to not lose value, they still think that you will call.
    • nefarious26
      nefarious26
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 413
      try bet folding instead of check calling, in the back of your mind your checking to induce some bluffs. also your losing money when they check back with worse hands so i think bet/fold is better
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi Imimba1,

      I told you there'd be lots of help didn't I?

      Now, rule one is take all this in and absorb it carefully. This advice is coming at you from people who have been there and done the same as you and lost money. They now win money, irrespective of avatar colour..why is that then?
      Because they listened before.

      On the shoulders of giants we stand. :)

      Regards and run sensibly,

      Mal.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Thx a lot guys for the feedback, I really appreciate it! :)

      I succesfully changed my mindset
      from: I won't let you bluff me out!!
      to: Haha, I won't pay you off!

      I can now happily fold when I'm beat (well, much more often then before), and I feel happy, because I didnt pay off a better hand. He must be mad, saying something like: OMG, why didnt he pay me off? AARGH

      With this mindset, folding isn't hard. :P
    • Benm473
      Benm473
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2011 Posts: 85
      I like that thought set. Also bluffs are rarely over bet shove aggression on these sorts of board and when you think logically to yourself

      'is this player likely to slowplay the nuts or close to the nuts (very likely at NL2)'

      -2) has this player got the bluffing tendancies of Isildur1 and is capable of bluff re-raising/raising a river (very unlikely at NL2) your decision now becomes easier

      otherwise put I like the way you have changed your mindset assume they are not bluffing unless they give you a reason to believe otherwise especially with big river bets and you can't go wrong.

      I also think to myself so what if they bluff me here or there I do it to other players sometimes you just have to say GG give them credit for a well executed potential bluff and press the fold button.

      Btw I had this problem majorly and still do have it to an extent but even improving it bit by bit can make a very big difference to winrate. GL
    • bettingstation
      bettingstation
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.12.2009 Posts: 125
      we should know our competitor to overcome this situation... if you know that this player is a bluffer you should raise high in the early stage....
    • martinemem
      martinemem
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.07.2011 Posts: 596
      :coolface:
    • PhoenixPhreak
      PhoenixPhreak
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2011 Posts: 335
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      Thx a lot guys for the feedback, I really appreciate it! :)

      I succesfully changed my mindset
      from: I won't let you bluff me out!!
      to: Haha, I won't pay you off!

      I can now happily fold when I'm beat (well, much more often then before), and I feel happy, because I didnt pay off a better hand. He must be mad, saying something like: OMG, why didnt he pay me off? AARGH

      With this mindset, folding isn't hard. :P
      This is really good. It truly is one of my biggest leaks. I'll try to use the mindset you do and focus on not paying off.
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      ok
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Well, I got a 80-20% bad beat, and then I get back to the old, primal mindset: I WILL NOT LET THEM BLUFF ME!

      I have to exclude myself from playing for approx. 24 hours after a bad beat like that it looks like. I get really angry when this happens, it's like the game is rewarding bad play :f_mad:
    • PickoCro
      PickoCro
      Platinum
      Joined: 14.04.2009 Posts: 83
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      Well, I got a 80-20% bad beat, and then I get back to the old, primal mindset: I WILL NOT LET THEM BLUFF ME!

      I have to exclude myself from playing for approx. 24 hours after a bad beat like that it looks like. I get really angry when this happens, it's like the game is rewarding bad play :f_mad:


      I used to have the exact same problems as you when i was playing around the same limit, and while i don t know what solution would work for you, I can tell you what worked for me...

      1) Try to talk out your hand in your head while you re playing it... It sounds pretty simple but it will help you a lot.

      For example let s say you have Q :spade: Q :heart: you have 1 caller and flop comes J :heart: 2 :heart: 9 :club: talk the hand in your head like ok i m getting value out of all jx hands, all 9x hands, all draws so i should bet. Turn comes another heart you bet, and get raised, ask yourself some questions. Is this player capable of making a move here, or not? Is he raising here only with a flush, or can he be raising with an A :heart: x hand, maybe even a set or 2 pair? Could my flush draw be good? What do i do if i miss? What do i do if i hit; should i donk, or check call? After all that try to make out what you think is the optimal decision, and don t just autopilot the hand. I know i m not inventing the wheel here, but this really should help you.

      2) When you re playing try to be as colse to being 100% in the mood to play as you can...

      Try to make sure you re not hungry, tired, tilted from a previous session or even have some personal problems in your life, cause even small things like that can ruin your concentration... You could be playing and start thinking about something completely different and not be a 100% focused on your hand...

      3) Dont play on tilt, and always be self-critical.

      Even a 5-10 minute break can help you regain your composure. Think about the hand, think about what part of the hand could you have played better, and if everything is really ok, then let the bad beat just sink in, and try to calm yourself down, and pick yourself up. If you are unable to do that, take a day, maybe a few days off to get into the optimal poker playing mindset...

      If thousands of people started out as fish, and are now crushing high stakes, so can you...

      Hope this helps.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Thanks Picko!

      1) is definietly a good suggestion. I shouldnt autopilot while I'm not such a good player. should rather keep asking questions

      Well, as long as I'm steaming, it's +EV to do anything else then play I suppose. :f_biggrin:
      If the most EV decision is not to play, then I have to do it as a good poker player.
    • Maloco87
      Maloco87
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2011 Posts: 514
      that is good advice for me also because I have been doing the same thing recently, calling when I know am beat maybe due to bad beats and tilt which i think is causing me to have a bad downswing at NL5

      i am currently going back to basics in study and going through my hand database to fix my leaks etc
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,904
      If you think that you call too much -- or raise too much or bet too much -- or bet the wrong sizes then you need to read "Bet types - why do you bet?"

      Every bet must have a purpose.

      If you don't have a purpose, don't make a bet.
    • Maloco87
      Maloco87
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2011 Posts: 514
      I think my problem with nl5 is because im putting much more into the pot compared to nl2 I dont want to lose that money and i get to agressive trying win that pot. I need to just play the way i did at nl2 valuse bet my big hands and fold when i miss, just play to win at show down unless i find a good spot to bluff
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