NL4 - TPTK = nuts?

    • farbwenz
      farbwenz
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2010 Posts: 359
      I have just moved up to NL4, and reckognized the huge difference between NL2 and NL4 on WPT. Maybe it was pure chance, but I saw only the same players on all tables, and got beat with TPTK vs sets several times in a row. Also when going AI preflop I saw no J4s hands and the like, only TT+. Is the difference really as huge as it seemed to me? Do I actually have to do table selection, and pay close attention to the tables (other than in NL2)? please answers only by those who played these limits recently:-)
  • 7 replies
    • ains21
      ains21
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2011 Posts: 303
      Think: why would there be a huge difference between NL2 and NL4? The only guys playing these limits are recreational players and others that are learning to play so they can go up the limits. To either group, $2 or $4 BI is really kind of irrelevant for the most part (especially for recreational players). There is a ton of fish shoving crap PF at NL4 and even at NL10 (PP has same player pool as WPT I believe and I play there). Just find tables with high players and hands per flop and you'll bump into the fish sooner than you think.
    • sileekhunt
      sileekhunt
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.06.2010 Posts: 286
      I get where ains21 is coming from, but I guess there is some difference when you first switch - esp if you are going from 2NL Fullring to 4NL 6 Max - people will be a little better - which is good because you will adjust.

      You may not see as many stupid plays - but there are still some nutters & fish splashing $ around.

      Also sounds like you need to table select a bit or change the time you play as you are sitting with multi-tablers on all over..
    • Krishjanis
      Krishjanis
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2010 Posts: 977
      People are like there is no difference between NL2 and NL4,5, but those limits are so different. Your winrate drops by half, it's only because NL2 is a complete circus, people have no idea what they are doing on NL2. As soon as you hit NL4, people mostly know what buttons do, most of the people made it to NL4 by beating NL2 so they already now how to play(not good, but better than clicking colorful buttons). Like a guy called Blackrain79 who has played more than million hands on both limits, says the same thing, his winrate drops in half, in his book he has NL2 and NL5 approach for certain spots.
      So to OP, just accept that your graph won't be going up that fast, do table select, it always helps, I do it on NL2 and NL5 and if I didn't I would just be playing with 24 tabling nits when I could play with 70 VPIP "what does this button do?" people. You can steal blinds from nits all day or get this one guy who bluffs off his whole stack when you have nuts.
      I have moved up to NL5 two times because I cashed out not go broke and both times the same, the amount tables drops by half, table average VPIP drops considerably.
      I know higher stake people are laughing at me, but that's you who has moved up several time and this is us NL2 and NL4 players who are just learning and trying to cope with things changing.
    • ains21
      ains21
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2011 Posts: 303
      Originally posted by Krishjanis
      People are like there is no difference between NL2 and NL4,5, but those limits are so different. Your winrate drops by half, it's only because NL2 is a complete circus, people have no idea what they are doing on NL2. As soon as you hit NL4, people mostly know what buttons do, most of the people made it to NL4 by beating NL2 so they already now how to play(not good, but better than clicking colorful buttons). Like a guy called Blackrain79 who has played more than million hands on both limits, says the same thing, his winrate drops in half, in his book he has NL2 and NL5 approach for certain spots.
      So to OP, just accept that your graph won't be going up that fast, do table select, it always helps, I do it on NL2 and NL5 and if I didn't I would just be playing with 24 tabling nits when I could play with 70 VPIP "what does this button do?" people. You can steal blinds from nits all day or get this one guy who bluffs off his whole stack when you have nuts.
      I have moved up to NL5 two times because I cashed out not go broke and both times the same, the amount tables drops by half, table average VPIP drops considerably.
      I know higher stake people are laughing at me, but that's you who has moved up several time and this is us NL2 and NL4 players who are just learning and trying to cope with things changing.
      This guy clearly knows more about NL2/4 than me, so ignore my post above. Good luck OP.
    • ragney
      ragney
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      royal is always the nuts no matter the limit
    • farbwenz
      farbwenz
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2010 Posts: 359
      thanks guys. I guess I'd rather go on 12-tabling NL2 for some time, than 4-tabling and putting myself in more difficult decisions :-) That's probably not so good for learning, but I made only 5000 hands in cash games anyway (play MTTs and SNG usually). I suppose I will just do 5000 more today and tomorrow and try NL 4 on sunday evening then.
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      Originally posted by ains21
      Just find tables with high players and hands per flop and you'll bump into the fish sooner than you think.
      What do you call High in this context?

      I have been on Party for a while now and struggle to find tables on NL4 with over 25% players fer flop - the few ones I do find drop below that very quickly.

      I used strict table selection and I am used to leaving a table when the players per flop drops below 30% (this was on 888).

      The tables I have seen on Party are extremely tight compared to what I am used to. I have played NL2 - NL30 for some time on 888 with varying degrees of success and on Party I have switched to SnG's to make a profit.