Multi tabling without stats is too damn hard!!!!

    • noz03
      noz03
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      Joined: 07.03.2012 Posts: 129
      Lately I'm playing on a site that doesn't allow stat programs (pt3, etc.) but how the hell do you multi table without stats! I often see sng videos of players who play 6 tables without using stats but for me I cant be a winning player without having a rough idea of what kind of player I'm betting into, and I cant do that with more than 2 tables (even 2 is pushing it).

      So what can I do to improve my play without stats on multi tabling? Maybe I should change my whole strategy and become a rock? I donno :/
  • 21 replies
    • NatRPheM
      NatRPheM
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      Joined: 05.10.2008 Posts: 391
      I wish stats were banned, in my eyes it's the exact same as cheating.
    • noz03
      noz03
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      Joined: 07.03.2012 Posts: 129
      I agree but... I find playing 4 tables with stats so easy but without them I can barely manage 2 tables. Is that normal? How do the people who make the strategy videos play 6 or more tables without stats... just seems insane to me.
    • savage1981
      savage1981
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      Joined: 31.05.2010 Posts: 945
      You could sharkscope your opponents and then colour code them accordingly. Or is that banned as well?
    • noz03
      noz03
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      Joined: 07.03.2012 Posts: 129
      As long as 3rd party software is not involved it is allowed, but from what I know sharkscope can only tell you if a player is a winning player or a loosing player. Right now I just try to check the history of the showdown hands and especially focus on the players behind me on the table but still struggling to play more than 2 tables..

      Maybe I should change my strategy? Play a style that would work against your average player and consider all players as unknown?
    • savage1981
      savage1981
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      Joined: 31.05.2010 Posts: 945
      Originally posted by noz03
      ...but from what I know sharkscope can only tell you if a player is a winning player or a losing player.
      Well, that and their ROI and how many games they've played and loads of other stuff. What other reads do you need though? Winning players will be tight early and loose in later stages. The fish will be in general the opposite.
    • jonnyjm
      jonnyjm
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      Joined: 24.03.2008 Posts: 447
      Originally posted by NatRPheM
      I wish stats were banned, in my eyes it's the exact same as cheating.
      +1, except i don't agree with the cheating bit. Games would be A LOT better without stats though.
    • noz03
      noz03
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      Joined: 07.03.2012 Posts: 129
      I thought so until I found a guy who played 50/10 stats and had a steady 17% roi over 1500 games. Unless his little brother is playing on his account I dont get that at all. Also there might not be so many types of winning player but there are lots of types of loosing players, some loose because they are too weak, some loose because they are stations.

      But anyway I see the trainers on here playing 6 tables without any stats or sharkscope info... how do they do that without throwing their money away?
    • breena
      breena
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      Joined: 14.09.2010 Posts: 412
      I used to play cash without HUD which I suppose is different but I just took loads of notes made sure I checked every hand that went to showdown. Fairly soon you will have everyone labeled and most there weak spots.

      Use simple notes like

      fold 3bet OOP 5/1 IP 0/2

      STATION!!!, PASSIVE!!!!

      folds steal

      prob stuff like shoves sb light

      It may take you a little while to get going but on a small site fairly soon you will have everyones number and you will start increasing tables
    • NatRPheM
      NatRPheM
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      Joined: 05.10.2008 Posts: 391
      Originally posted by breena
      I used to play cash without HUD which I suppose is different but I just took loads of notes made sure I checked every hand that went to showdown. Fairly soon you will have everyone labeled and most there weak spots.

      Use simple notes like

      fold 3bet OOP 5/1 IP 0/2

      STATION!!!, PASSIVE!!!!

      folds steal

      prob stuff like shoves sb light

      It may take you a little while to get going but on a small site fairly soon you will have everyones number and you will start increasing tables
      That's how poker should be played online. Baning all these huds would make poker awesome and fair again. To those that say: Well just use a program that everybody elses uses cause it's legal. No, I hate cheating, every kind. I don't care if it's allowed to cheat or not, it still doesn't make it ok. Big respect for those grinders that play without it.
    • nefarious26
      nefarious26
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      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 413
      i have holdem manager2 and i prefer not to use it

      i used to when i was grinding hours per day on to many tables, But in the end just find it very robotic and boring so i decided it was not for me. (After 18 months solid grinding)

      i enjoy playing poker so i didnt want to quit so now i just play 1-3 tables i dont bother with the hud as i prefer to play without it, i play on smaller sites now with less players, i pay more attention what everyone is doing now and am always looking for good spots to exploit,

      stats are great but they can be misleading, im more interested what is happening here and now while im at the table not what happend yesterday or last month.

      dont get me wrong stats are an advantage any extra information is a good thing but i think it takes away a lot of skill in the game and replaces it with %%% which is fine i guess if your grinding shit loads of tables

      BTW my win rate is much higher now
    • FingersMalone
      FingersMalone
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      Joined: 30.06.2011 Posts: 381
      I'm playing 6 short handed anonymous cash tables without stats - but so are (in effect) my opponents as even if you use a HUD the stats are only valid for that session.

      I enjoy it.

      It seems to make my opponents tighter and less likely to take notes so, unless I'm observe a different playing style, they tend to be ABC regs or relatively poor and it is quite easy to exploit, at least up to 50NL.

      I have concerns that it might be make my transition to higher levels more difficult as I can't study my own mistakes in a session review - but I offset that by watching 90 minutes of strategy videos a day and paying a lot of attention to the game.

      I'm happy with, or without, stats but I do think learning to play confidently with both is a must.

      On a whole, I would prefer if HUDs were banned.

      For all the efforts sites are putting into recruiting recreational players, it is interesting that there has been no solid attempt to remove HUDs.

      It is probably the single most effective thing they could do to prolong the poker lifetime of such customers.
    • savage1981
      savage1981
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      Yeah, I think that banning all poker strategy sites would be great. Games would be more fun if everyone was shit and couldn't learn.
    • FingersMalone
      FingersMalone
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      Joined: 30.06.2011 Posts: 381
      Well... in football, the training people use ProZone, a system that has stats on how players have played previously but they can't use it in games.

      We could have trackers without HUDs which would be similar.

      I was not advocating banning learning materials.
    • NatRPheM
      NatRPheM
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      Joined: 05.10.2008 Posts: 391
      Originally posted by savage1981
      Yeah, I think that banning all poker strategy sites would be great. Games would be more fun if everyone was shit and couldn't learn.
      Where does it say anything about baning sites? Programs and sites are 2 different things.
    • noz03
      noz03
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      Joined: 07.03.2012 Posts: 129
      It is so interesting that so many people are against stats, especially the regulars... its true though, just because everyone is using it doesnt make it a good thing, just makes it normal. its basically the same as if everyone in sports was using steroids. And I totally agree it makes the game very boring and robotic. I dont think it should be banned but some more stat free options would be nice.... if I can bloody learn how to beat them.... played 10 games today and not a single first place :(
    • savage1981
      savage1981
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      Originally posted by NatRPheM
      Where does it say anything about baning sites?
      So is it just ok for you to make irrelevant comments?

      Originally posted by noz03
      So what can I do to improve my play without stats on multi tabling? Maybe I should change my whole strategy and become a rock? I donno :/
      Originally posted by NatRPheM
      I wish stats were banned, in my eyes it's the exact same as cheating.
    • NatRPheM
      NatRPheM
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      Joined: 05.10.2008 Posts: 391
      Read the topic, sorry you can't put 2+2 together, guess that's why you need a helping hand in poker.

      Edit: Oh and also it's really easy to find a quote that fits what you want it to be, just like in real life trying to lie to yourself so it matches how you want your world to be, ignoring facts and stuff we don't like is human. Everybody that actually reads what he says in his first post will see that my comment is more than relevant to both the topic AND his initial post.
    • kalychko
      kalychko
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      Joined: 04.10.2009 Posts: 588
      Stats make the game really tough. That's why on the high levels of SnG in Pokerstars there are no more fishes. Almost noone plays for winning in the high levels, they play only to be break even and gain from rakeback. Traffic goes down as fishes don't find the game pleasant anymore and PROS don't see the point of playing on a table only with PROS. If everyone were anynimous like on the ZOOM would have been a lot more fun. This sites gotta think sth about SnG, otherwise they are dead.

      And man I play 12 tables SnG's on the low levels with no stats. It's no problem.
    • noz03
      noz03
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      Joined: 07.03.2012 Posts: 129
      Originally posted by kalychko
      And man I play 12 tables SnG's on the low levels with no stats. It's no problem.
      You take notes at all? I can barely click fast enough to handle 12 tables, especially when several of them get into the late stages. What happens if you get 4 or 5 tables heads up at the same time?

      To be honest Id be happy if i could just play 3 at a time on sngs.
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