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[NL2-NL10] KK vs unknown

    • farbwenz
      Joined: 01.01.2010 Posts: 359
      PartyGaming - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4:

      BB: $1.80
      Hero (UTG): $2.91
      UTG+1: $1.50
      UTG+2: $0.70
      MP: $2.62
      MP+1: $2.75
      CO: $1.75
      BTN: $2.50
      SB: $2.00

      SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has K :heart: K :club:

      Hero raises to $0.08, UTG+1 raises to $0.14, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.52, UTG+1 raises to $1.06, Hero raises to $2.91 and is all-in, UTG+1 calls $0.44 and is all-in

      UTG+1 is unknown to me. The minraise to 2/3 of his stack means that he thinks he has a good hand, but on the other hand I don''t know what unknown thinks is good (maybe JQs+, who knows). May I still fold here? I ask because I obviously ran into AA, and I feel that this happens too often to me.
  • 6 replies
    • CPallo
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,350
      Usually when you have that kind of a feeling, fold it. I think it's usually +EV to play for stacks against an unknown player w KK.

      On the contrary, what else hand could play that way? QQ usually wants to see the flop first, AK is unlikely but possible.

      IMO, I'd fold with that action.
    • Resilence
      Joined: 10.03.2012 Posts: 934
      I would still get it in here. IMO it's really rare you run into AA.
      And if you do KK can still crack aces :P
      I still think it's +EV to push preflop, if you don't get it this time well maybe next time.
      And if you feel it happens to often to you, read a bit about variance, and watch
      It really helped me :)
    • DrDunne
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,378
      hey farbwen

      definitely still get it in here - especially because he's uknown. the point is not to think you're up against a particular hand, but a particular range. without any info, we can say he'll stack off with a range of AK, QQ+. against this range, you are 57.2% - a favourite. and this excludes the random spew with some AQ or JJ or maybe even worse. you have to get KK in here simply because of that fact. do you agree that villain will stack off with AK and QQ+? if so, then you made the best play :)

      try to forget all of the times you're against AA because it is just a cooler. and we obviously forget the "normal" times when our KK hold up against QQ - because we consider it "normal".
    • farbwenz
      Joined: 01.01.2010 Posts: 359
      Okay, i see. I would possibly not include AK in the range (he might flat call or push), but even then its 50/50 (vs AA,KK,QQ). And the occasional chip spew or Ak will make it +EV.

      An almost completely unrelated question to that: How much rake do I pay in such a hand? 10% of the 1.50$ which went all-in, or 10% of the 3 cents, or nothing because all action came preflop? Must be 0.3 cents, right? I come from SNgs were it is a lot more straightforward to calculate^^
      If the rake is at 0.15$ I would need 55% equity and it could become a borderline decision again (if AK is often not in the range)
    • DrDunne
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,378
      i've never really looked into the rake tbh, but here is the link for partypoker's rake. i think at this limit you don't need to worry about rake though :) it will only be something like 7bb here i think.
    • veriz
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello farbwenz,

      Pretty standard to get it in, I am not folding here anyways. :)

      Best Regards.