[NL2-NL10] bb KK AT6

    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Poker Stars $2.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      CO: $4.76 - VPIP: 31, PFR: 27, 3B: 9, AF: 0,0, Hands: 75
      BTN: $4.35 - VPIP: 51, PFR: 7, 3B: 0, AF: 1,8, Hands: 68
      SB: $2.30 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 4, 3B: 0, AF: 1,0, Hands: 24
      Hero (BB): $2.13 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 17, 3B: 5, AF: 2,3, Hands: 3191
      UTG: $3.13 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 16, 3B: 0, AF: 2,0, Hands: 86

      Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB with K :club: K :spade:
      2 folds, BTN raises to $0.04, SB calls $0.03, Hero raises to $0.17, BTN calls $0.13, 1 fold

      Flop: ($0.38) T :club: 6 :heart: A :diamond: (2 players)
      Hero checks?

      I'm ahead of his range, but can't bet neither for value, nor bluff.
      But if I check, he can certainly bet with anyting as a bluff (88-KK), and I have to fold. What can one do in this situation?
  • 10 replies
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      you don't really HAVE to fold. and maybe he checks behind and it'll be easier to extract value from worse...
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Imimba1,

      Still raise it bigger preflop and otherwise you can easily even CB it cause vs such a guy we could see a lot worse hands GS/Tx hands and so on. Check/Folding directly might be too weak and undervaluing our hand.

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      1) If we cBet this flop for value, surely we must check the turn?

      2) How does this situation differ from this one? bu QQ A73 vs CS(calling station)

      We have the same opponent but in that situation we are not in a 3Bet pot and have position + we can get called by FDs. I got bit confused at first because I would imagine that there are many Ax hands in villain's 3Bet/calling range here and if we can get called by much worse in this spot, I think we can get called by even more worse hands in that one.

      Since, of course, you are more skilled I would imagine that there are some certain nuances that seperate the two spots, so let me try and figure them out:

      In this situation villain can call with all sort of Tx, QJ, 89, 78, worse PP combos + most importantly we don't have position so by betting we actually disguise our hand much better and villain might be less inclined to just bluff us off our hand. Since by check/calling the flop our hand is pretty obvious.

      Whereas in that situation there are only PPs and rarely 7x type of hands that can call and that we really crush. FDs actually still have decent equity against us so even if we get called by them, we can't really be super happy (although we have the redraw). Besides, we have position, so we can control the pot much better. We can even bluffcatch the turn, if villain does not bet big.

      Have I missed something?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      1) If we cBet this flop for value, surely we must check the turn?

      2) How does this situation differ from this one? bu QQ A73 vs CS(calling station)

      We have the same opponent but in that situation we are not in a 3Bet pot and have position + we can get called by FDs. I got bit confused at first because I would imagine that there are many Ax hands in villain's 3Bet/calling range here and if we can get called by much worse in this spot, I think we can get called by even more worse hands in that one.

      Since, of course, you are more skilled I would imagine that there are some certain nuances that seperate the two spots, so let me try and figure them out:

      In this situation villain can call with all sort of Tx, QJ, 89, 78, worse PP combos + most importantly we don't have position so by betting we actually disguise our hand much better and villain might be less inclined to just bluff us off our hand. Since by check/calling the flop our hand is pretty obvious.

      Whereas in that situation there are only PPs and rarely 7x type of hands that can call and that we really crush. FDs actually still have decent equity against us so even if we get called by them, we can't really be super happy (although we have the redraw). Besides, we have position, so we can control the pot much better. We can even bluffcatch the turn, if villain does not bet big.

      Have I missed something?
      Must Check why? :) Such a guy could easily have a lot worse hands in their range and it's going to be difficult for us to Call him 2 streets anyways and the guy could easily just bluff against us. Then rather instead turn the hand into bluff-catcher on the flop.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      2) How does this situation differ from this one? bu QQ A73 vs CS(calling station)

      We have the same opponent but in that situation we are not in a 3Bet pot and have position + we can get called by FDs. I got bit confused at first because I would imagine that there are many Ax hands in villain's 3Bet/calling range here and if we can get called by much worse in this spot, I think we can get called by even more worse hands in that one.

      Since, of course, you are more skilled I would imagine that there are some certain nuances that seperate the two spots, so let me try and figure them out:

      In this situation villain can call with all sort of Tx, QJ, 89, 78, worse PP combos + most importantly we don't have position so by betting we actually disguise our hand much better and villain might be less inclined to just bluff us off our hand. Since by check/calling the flop our hand is pretty obvious.

      Whereas in that situation there are only PPs and rarely 7x type of hands that can call and that we really crush. FDs actually still have decent equity against us so even if we get called by them, we can't really be super happy (although we have the redraw). Besides, we have position, so we can control the pot much better. We can even bluffcatch the turn, if villain does not bet big.

      Have I missed something?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Don't search for exact the same situation mate, it might be even one of your leaks trying to play poker by the book. First to mention the huge difference is that you are in single raised pot and 3bet pot. From there we can start to change the thoughts. On this board quite obviously a lot of hands continue as starting from weak pairs as Tx but how many worse hands continues there? :)
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      So, is Check/calling 1-2 streets the best option here?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      So, is Check/calling 1-2 streets the best option here?
      Go back to my evaluation and will get the answer. :)
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      So, is Check/calling 1-2 streets the best option here?
      Go back to my evaluation and will get the answer. :)
      Well, you say that loose fishes have lots of Ax hands. example (here we wouldnt Cbet with KQ on A-high board)
      It doesnt matter here that I have KK here, its middle pair and way behind vs Ax hands. Imagine having KK in that KQ situation. We couldnt value bet it, assuming his Ax floating range.

      It's like we put different ranges on the villain, when we have different hole cards... When we have KK, we just simply ignore the Ax hands. When we have KQ, we instantly start to see them.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      What's wrong with you? Do you somehow enjoy arguing or you doing it for a reason? You ain't even trying to understand the game but rather just arguing with rather unreasonable sentences.

      Do you want to tell me that you don't see the difference between KK & KQ hand, if you really don't see that then I'd recommend going back to very basics and read basic articles cause you might have a serious leak in your game which is not understanding hand strength.